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Post by kivaanzion on Jun 20, 2005 10:40:01 GMT -5
Well that's just my personal take on it. There seems to be a theme of "bigger is better" with the Empire. Take Star Destroyers for example- they start out as Republic Assault craft in AOTC, becoming larger Republic Destroyers in ROTS, and eventually finish as mile long Star Destroyers in the Original Trilogy. I don't think Palpatine would have been satisfied with just one Death Star. Nor do I think they started building DS II after the first one was destroyed. The title crawl of ROTJ makes even less sense... "Luke Skywalker has returned to his home planet of Tatooine in an attempt to rescue his friend Han Solo from the clutches of the vile gangster Jabba the Hutt...
Little does Luke know that the GALACTIC EMPIRE has begun construction on a new armored space station even more powerful than the first dreaded Death Star... When completed, this ultimate weapon will spell certain doom for the small band of rebels struggling to restore freedom to the galaxy..."What does that mean? The Empire started construction of DS II while Luke was planning the rescue of Han on Tatooine? So the Imperial engineers took 19 years to build the first one, and took less than a year to have the second one 2/3rds completed? It just doesn't fit for me.
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Aayla
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'excitement, Adventure jedi craves not these things'
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Post by Aayla on Jun 21, 2005 10:23:52 GMT -5
yeah that doesnt make sense to me either :S hmmmm well perhaps it was just a gl error
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Mon-Jas Charan
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"Poena Vigoratus. Pullus cavo vix. Palma , est eternus"
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Post by Mon-Jas Charan on Jun 21, 2005 10:50:59 GMT -5
So the Imperial engineers took 19 years to build the first one, and took less than a year to have the second one 2/3rds completed? It just doesn't fit for me. Well, look at it this way ... it was new technology, it took time to figure everything out ... Take new cars, it can take 2 to 5 years to bring a car from drawing board to the show room floor, but after the R&D is done they roll one off the line every 45 sec.
Just a thought.
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Post by himiko sabbrawrra on Jun 21, 2005 11:34:49 GMT -5
That makes sense.. Plus the creww was ..motovated into building the second one faster.. sense they knew what they were doing that time.
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Post by kivaanzion on Jun 21, 2005 14:00:36 GMT -5
Well you have a point Mon-Jas. But that would make me wonder why they didn't build a dozen Death Stars at the same time? They certainly would have crushed the rebellion with one swift stroke. So... trying to keep all aspects in mind, how does this sound... (clears throat, and breathes deeply...)Dooku takes the plans for the DS to Palpatine who gives it to the Republic Engineering Corps (soon to be the Galactic Empire's Imperial Engineers), and says "Build this immediately." The Chief engineer (knowing his life may be on the line) takes the plans to his staff to begin working on the project ASAP. When they try to read the instructions... they are in Geonosian! DOH! "We're deadmen!" So it takes 19 years to build the first DS as Palpatine (in his infinite wisdom) had the Geonosians exterminated, rather than keeping them as slaves to build the DS themselves. Shortly after becoming fully operational, the first DS is destroyed by a farmboy from an unheard of Outer Rim world (boy... they just can't win). The Imperial Corps of engineers isn't out of a job though as they are instructed to build a second, larger and more powerful DS. Fortunately it takes them a fraction of the time it took to build the first DS (and yet Palpatine was still displeased with their progress). Ultimately Palpatine's arrogance gets the best of him, believing that one super huge DS would be enough rather than having two or three dozen built. Please don't take the above as sarcasm. I'm trying to come up with a (hopefully) humourous answer to what is one of the saga's biggest plot loopholes.
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Post by Ani-Chay Pinn on Jun 21, 2005 18:08:31 GMT -5
Well you have a point Mon-Jas. But that would make me wonder why they didn't build a dozen Death Stars at the same time? Well, just one Death Star must be fabulously expensive. That could clearly be a limiting factor.
Also, who is going to command the dozen or so Death Stars? Does Palpatine have a dozen or so officers that he actually trusts with that much fire power? The Emperor can build another Death Star, but Tarkins are hader to come by. Palpatine seems like the kind of guy who wants everyone under his thrumb and that's tough to do when you've got too many ranking officers who can destroy planets.
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Post by kivaanzion on Jun 21, 2005 20:33:37 GMT -5
Well I think the only real threat would be putting Vader in charge of a Death Star. Vader would be the only ranking officer with the intestinal fortitude to attempt a coup against the Emperor. Look at his only other "Moff"- Moff Jerjerrod. He was a bit of a wimp methinks. Certainly nothing like Tarkin who was clearly in control when he and Vader were in the same room (Leia said it best that he held Vader's "leash" even though she meant it as an insult). Jerjerrod quakes in his boots during Vader's impromptu visit. Palpatine would put officers in charge who either worshiped him wanting nothing but to please him in order to advance in rank (Ozzel would be a classic example), or officers who were competent, but scared to death of him (like Jerjerrod). Trust is not an issue as any officers who he felt had the potential to be disloyal would be eliminated. Any officer with ulterior motives of taking over the Empire would have their thoughts betray them in Palpatine's or Vader's presence. Don't forget Palpatine also has the power of clairvoyance. Again I think the only explanation is Palpatine's arrogance. Luke said it best that his overconfidence was his weakness. Expense? Well I guess that might be a factor, but would the Empire need to purchase the materials and manpower needed, or would they simply take the needed materials in the name of the Empire. They are evil after all.
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Aayla
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'excitement, Adventure jedi craves not these things'
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Post by Aayla on Jun 23, 2005 2:18:13 GMT -5
and also its hard to find commanding officers to promote to the deathstar when vader randomly starts to choke them all to death. also why didnt the empire invest in a more cowardly stratergy after their first ds was destroyed what i mean by this is build a couple of shells of the death star (with no purpose but as a decoy to buy them more time to build at least a couple more deathstars) i mean that could have worked
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Post by Seda Navilli on Jun 23, 2005 2:29:34 GMT -5
Well if you remember, pretty much the whole second death star was a big trick to trap the rebel fleet, so if they had decoys it wouldnt have worked
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Aayla
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'excitement, Adventure jedi craves not these things'
Posts: 192
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Post by Aayla on Jun 23, 2005 2:52:55 GMT -5
no i ment by that if they had several deathstar lookalikes spread out across the galaxy the rebels may have though"omg now theres loads of them screw that we should go into extreme hiding for now" buying the empire valuable time
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Post by Seda Navilli on Jun 23, 2005 7:17:49 GMT -5
But that was the Empires plan - to bring them out of hiding. To get them all in one spot in order to crush them in one swift blow. The Empire didnt need anymore time; their Death Star was fully operational, what would they do with any extra time? It was a pretty good plan too, and would have worked if it wasnt for those crazy Ewoks!
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Post by himiko sabbrawrra on Jun 29, 2005 23:11:57 GMT -5
very true.. The Empire was prepeared for the rebels.. but not a more primitive way of attack...
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Post by Starkindler (The Naked Jedi) on Jun 30, 2005 22:10:18 GMT -5
Think of the logistics and resources needed to build something the size of a small moon. The nightmare of shipping materials to the area and inventorying them alone would be enough to crack many officers under a deadline. No. One at a time makes sense. After all they considered the Death Stars to be immune to the poorly equipped rebel fleet anyway. there is also the FEAR and Dread to be induced by not knowing where the ONE Death Star could be....perhaps on it's way to your homeworld.....so sit back and behave as Empy Palpy wants you to.
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Post by Starkindler (The Naked Jedi) on Jun 30, 2005 22:14:04 GMT -5
That is a very good observation! I would have said that there is a height requirement for stormtroopers (so the Imperial Central Supply would only need to make one size of uniform armour), but this new info blows away that theory- LOL! It is to be mentioned that Luke was in the Armour in the halls of the Death Star accompanied by a Wookie who stood over 7 feet tall. It might be hard for someone to notice Luke being a few inches short when they were more likely either interested in the wookie captive or worried that he was properly restrained.
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Post by Starkindler (The Naked Jedi) on Jun 30, 2005 22:16:05 GMT -5
I reckon that Boba is such a bada ss he could get away with it ;D as I read it Dooku recruited Jango for the cloners. Palpitane may not have known the details of WHO it was just that it had been done as per his orders. Dooku may not have told him, after all the Sith Apprentice is supposed to hold out on his Master and eventually kill him....no?
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