What's the deal with Hayden Christiensen?

[admin]

It's a movie....move on.

[tanzanlinnear]

Regardless of what I say, the evidence I show or the personal experiences I call upon, there is clearly nothing I can say to make people accept that George Lucas is not a fantastic (or even competent) director, because they refuse to seperate the creator from the creation which they love, and I'm getting sick of banging my head against a metaphorical wall. The evidence is there for those who choose to see it, I'm done with this debate.
[Edit for spelling]

[Jauhzmynn Enz]

I think you and us are making a few points simultaniously while missing each other. Here's point.

1. He's not grade A beef for a director. But in the beginning with his first few films, he'd pioneered things that are now standard.

2. he has a style that's his and his alone, and each director has the right to create his/her own style even if it looks weird to the rest of us.

3. Not everyone is going to agree or like it.

4. So what if folks disagree with a director's views. It's life it's what makes life wonderful. I like Speilburg's work, but I don't always agree with the point he's trying to make.


As a person who's been educaited in film making, tell us YOUR vision. What burns inside you that makes you go through 6 years of schooling to get it out? What do you want to leave with the veiwes that makes their jaws drop in sheer awe? It's an extremely challenging, competetive and fun occupaition to say the least, but can be very rewarding and fullfilling.

. There's movies I loathe, but I'll see the director's comentary to see where he's going and why. When I read books, I've always since a child seen the scenery and such as if through a camera lens. Seen cut-a-ways, pans. dissolves when the author didn't write it.

[tanzanlinnear]

jauhzmynn said:

1. He's not grade A beef for a director. But in the beginning with his first few films, he'd pioneered things that are now standard.

Yes, he has pioneered many things, but, as you say, he is not Grade A director material. I have no problem with Lucas being rated as an innovator in the movie industry, my beef is when he's rated as a good director just because of the popularity of Star Wars, regardless of the various errors that have been pointed out.

jauhzmynn said:

2. he has a style that's his and his alone, and each director has the right to create his/her own style even if it looks weird to the rest of us.

.
I don't have a problem so much with his 'style', just the amount of mistakes he makes, and how they are ones that students are a) taught to avoid, and b) could not get away with.

jauhzmynn said:

3. Not everyone is going to agree or like it.

Absolutely, and it would be boring if everyone did like the same things, but anyone can see mistakes that are made, and as the creator, it is his responsibility to notice and correct any that are made before releasing a picture.

jauhzmynn said:

4. So what if folks disagree with a director's views. It's life it's what makes life wonderful. I like Speilburg's work, but I don't always agree with the point he's trying to make.

Again, it's not the views of the director that bother me, it's the quality of his work.

jauhzmynn said:

As a person who's been educaited in film making, tell us YOUR vision. What burns inside you that makes you go through 6 years of schooling to get it out? What do you want to leave with the veiwes that makes their jaws drop in sheer awe? It's an extremely challenging, competetive and fun occupaition to say the least, but can be very rewarding and fullfilling.

Well, I've moved away from actual film making as a career and tend to focus more on art, but that training is still there, so I still notice simple mistakes that I couldn't've got away with as a student. However, a friend and I are planning on doing a film based on Frederico Fellinni's La Dolce Vita. Not a scene for scene re-make, as that's not only beyond our means, but also, some of the scenes just wouldn't make sense, so I'm going to write a script 'suggested by', as they put on the I, Robot titles
[Edit to fix quotes]

[Leda EmBorr]

The thing with Lucas, I think, is the fact that not only is he a film-maker, he's a businessman. Yes, he could have easily fixed all those problem spots you mentioned. But he didn't. Why? Only he can say for sure, but I suspect is has to do with money. He knew people would flock to see the film regardless of whether or not he fixed those problems. They were so small to him, that it didn't matter. Better to spend the dollar on promotion, or "fixing" the Original Trilogy for DVD release... which will rake in the most cash?

Time may have been another factor, and his way of writing the script as he went along was just conducive to those kinds of errors. Again... why spend time and money to fix them... let the fans have fun picking it apart, they'll see it 12 times anyway, and the average theater-goer won't even notice.

I'm not knocking him for it, he's very clever. After all, he's created and supports a small empire in the name of digital technology. But the worlds greatest director, he certainly is not... and some of his dialogue is really quite painful. I really do admire him though, for his storytelling, his technological vision, and his drive to overcome the obstacles that stood in his way when he was making the first 3 films.

Hey, I still love the movies, and I still dress up like I want to be in them!

[kivaanzion]

ledaemborr said:

Time may have been another factor

I think this may have been the deciding factor. These days films are all about the release date. More often than not the exact release date is set before production (and post-production) is finished. Sometimes it is set before filming begins!

The film has to be completed by this date no matter what. Little mistakes (and quite frankly they are little Tanzan) have to be ignored inorder to have the film ready on time. Even if it would only take a day or less to fix, it still sets the completion behind. Add up all the little mistakes, and it could set the production behind by a week. There isn't really a choice in the matter; something has to be sacrificed.

I think that with any director's vision, the final film is possibly 80% of what the director wanted. They could eventually get 100%, but in the case of big-budget (especially sci-fi) movies, time constraints, money, and technology will not allow it. Much like what Lucas said about Star Wars- films are never really completed, they are abandoned.

Do I personally feel he is a great director? No.

Do I think these films are deserving of Best Picture Oscars? Nope. They do not even qualify as good science fiction for me- they are science fantasy (the difference is science fiction has a message to send; science fantasy is purely entertainment).

But do I love these films? YOU BETCHA! ;D

[tanzanlinnear]

ledaemborr said:

I'm not knocking him for it, he's very clever. After all, he's created and supports a small empire in the name of digital technology. But the worlds greatest director, he certainly is not... and some of his dialogue is really quite painful. I really do admire him though, for his storytelling, his technological vision, and his drive to overcome the obstacles that stood in his way when he was making the first 3 films.

Hey, I still love the movies, and I still dress up like I want to be in them!

I agree with that completely, but I don't think that errors were left in for financial reasons, because re-shooting (or in this case additional post production) is budgeted into any film. Knowing what is expected of film students, and seeing the quality of work of other film makers, I can only conclude that they were mistakes that he either did not notice or just couldn't be bothered to correct.

[Seda Navilli]

I think that time was the biggest factor as well - he may have had near unlimited funds, but he didnt have unlimited time. Whilst it would have been relatively easy to correct the mistakes, it would not have been quick... it takes alot of time to alter CGI to the level that GL needs to be realistic, no matter what technology you have. Through all of the BTS footage on the rots dvd, lack of time seems to be a current theme.

Remember the part where they are watching the final cut? That was extremely close to the deadline, and they were doing it to find inconsistencies, and correct the big ones. I simply think that they did not have the time to correct negligable saber switcheroos, or they did not have the time to concentrate hard enough to notice such small things. Although with that many people watching it I doubt it would have gone unnoticed. If they had the time, they would have trained Ian McDiarmid in saber combat instead of just having him wing it because of a misunderstanding with the cinematography.

[Jauhzmynn Enz]

All of you made good points . With the release date sometimes being set BEFORE the first scene is even shot it's extremely frustraiting. Huge budget is VERY exciting, then reality sets in. There's too many variables which slow production down. Weather, storms, injuries, sickenesses, transporting a cast and crew of thousands into inconvenient places via helicopter. Add all that up, it eats into the editting time. It'd be MUCH better if the release date wasn't set in stone, but a mile marker. I think the producers and directors should set their film's release after they've finished the editting stage. Willl that happen? probably not unless the directore is adament about it.

[Nova Darklighter]

And I thought this thread was about HC, silly me.
As for the Clone cartoons Gen. G and all his sabres, well, as someone has always said, if it isn't in the film, it doesn't count, so, the only sabres that count are the ones in the film.

[dalailala]

Well, I am SOOO not going to contribute to the GL as director conversation, but as far as Hayden goes, especially now that all of the films are done... I think he's a good actor dealing with bad dialogue. I think that most of them were good actors dealing with bad dialogue. You've seen most of them in other things and they are great - as a writer myself, I'm saying that GL is a great idea man, but a bad writer.

Remember the old OT quote: "You can write this (crap), George, but you can't say it!"

-Lala

[Leda EmBorr]

dalailala said:

Well, I am SOOO not going to contribute to the GL as director conversation,

Wise move!

...but as far as Hayden goes, especially now that all of the films are done... I think he's a good actor dealing with bad dialogue. I think that most of them were good actors dealing with bad dialogue. You've seen most of them in other things and they are great - as a writer myself, I'm saying that GL is a great idea man, but a bad writer.

Remember the old OT quote: "You can write this (crap), George, but you can't say it!"

-Lala

Bingo! ;D

[/quote]

[I Five]

What's the deal with Hayden...he has nice dark eyes, a cute smile, wavy dark hair...and he skis

All good in my book!

[Cozmo]

Okay, I know this topic is way old, and I know I'm beating a dead bantha, but I have to put my two cents in.

Here's what I think. Hayden is a good actor. He was great in Life As A House and he was great in the movie Shattered Glass (about a real-life writer for the political mag "New Republic"...which I found slightly amusing...who made up stories and passed them off as true).

I personally think his acting was rubbish in Ep. II. Now, I don't think it was his fault. Here's why.

If you've seen the "Empire of Dreams" documentary (available in the Special Edition DVD boxed set and also aired on The History Channel), there's a bit where Harrison Ford describes working with Lucas:

"George is a very nice man, and he really likes people. But he's the kind of guy who looks at the script and says to the actors, 'Okay, well, just do that.' And some times you just can't 'do that.'"

Consider this: when Irvin Kirschner directed Empire, he would hold "actors pow-wows" with the cast before each scene, and they'd discuss elements of the scene they were about to do, and the actors would suggest ideas, and they would work together to make the scene better. Lucas reportedly didn't do anything like that with his movies, and worked strictly off the script.

I think perhaps some of the cast were so thrilled to be working on a Star Wars movie, or maybe they felt it wasn't their place, but they never thought to say, "Hey, this doesn't sound right; maybe we should change this line a little."

But like everyone else says, they're George's movies. He can do anything he wants.

Thank God Hayden's acting improved in Ep. III.

[I Five]

I agree....II acting was But III was much better ;D

Plus, he & Ewan put SO much into the Mustafar fight scene...gotta give him credit for that too!