Article V.5...

[tanzanlinnear]

5. Members may not submit or wear Rubies costumes or Karate Gi’s as their TJA Jedi costume. We encourage both our members and prospective members to design/sew/acquire authentic screen accurate Jedi costumes. We feel that Rubies offers novice costuming to the public and as such is not acceptable at TJA.

Is this a 100% definite enforced rule now? I ordered a brand new gi over a month ago to use as the base for my costume... I can't return it, as it's been worn to soften the material prior to dyeing, so if it's not acceptable, I'm left with a gi I have no use for, nor able to return for refund...

[Leda EmBorr]

The thing is that when someone just gets a Karate Gi and wears it as a Jedi costume without modifying it in any way, It just looks like what it is... a Karate Gi. That's not acceptable. You say you plan to dye it, which is one way to modify it... are you planning on fixing the sleeves to be like Jedi tunic sleeves with the shoulder tucks and such? I think you mentioned that somewhere.

The question is, does it say "Jedi" or "brown belt"?

[tanzanlinnear]

It has indeed been dyed, but I'm not going to be able to do anything with the sleeves... They are quite large, but if I were to put tucks in the shoulders, they would be too short... This gives an idea of what it looks like, although it is now a much darker reddish brown (the red it appears here is the result of the camera) when the photo was taken, it was a coppery terracotta color. As to wether it says 'Jedi or Brown Belt', I leave up to you

[tanzanlinnear]

Something else crossed my mind while I was sleeping...
I don't understand why a gi should be deemed unacceptable purely because it is, for want of a better term, a 'store purchased' garment. Rubies costumes I understand. They are wildly inaccurate and the material is poor quality (I could go on) A gi however, although admittedly having some stylistic differences, is made of good quality material, and they are not so different from the Jedi Tunics as to be unrecognizeable.
If a gi is unacceptable purely because it is a 'store purchased' garment, and not something the person has hand-made themselves, then are people that have comissioned robes also going to have their costumes rejected, because they didn't make the robe?
The guidelines say that a Jedi must have a lightsaber, and Hasbro replicas (understandably) are not acceptable. Why then are RandomSabers acceptable? They are not constructed by the Jedi themself, they are purchased, and in most cases, are as inaccurate to the established sabers, as a Rubies Costume is... It is well known that a Jedi makes their own lightsaber, but it has never been suggested that a Jedi makes their own clothing as well, and this is I guess the lynchpin of my argument.
I'm really not trying to be awkward, or feel that the rules don't apply to me, or that I should be an exception to the rules, but, if there is leniency shown towards old costumes no longer meeting the standard of color, (which should in theory require an entirely new costume) then there should also be leniency towards new costumes (which may include a gi rather than a hand sewn tunic, because at least the colors will be correct) or those old costumes should be deemed unacceptable. I'm just trying to make a point that if a position is applied on one issue, the same position should apply on all issues, and that every rule has exceptions. Not everyone has the ability, resources or the time to actually hand-sew every aspect of their own costume, and I don't think people should be rejected from the Assembly because of that.
I'm not necessarily doing this for myself, but for everyone else that might have been in the same situation as me (purchased a gi purely for their costume) but might be afraid to speak up for themselves, so I'm speaking up for them.
As Master Em-Borr said, does it look Jedi or Brown Belt? I'd suggest that even an undyed gi, if worn with boots, tabbards, obi and belt, would instantly be recognized as a Jedi rather than a martial arts uniform, even if there are certain style differences in collar, sleeves and hem. With the amount of diversity in canon Jedi costumes, like Ki Adi-Mundi's, Yarael Poof's and even Master Yoda's, I really feel that gi's should be accepted as purchased variations on the theme, like boots and robes are, as per Article V, section 4b, and not lumped in with Rubies garments, because of the superior quality material and workmanship.
I fully accept that this stance might put me at odds with the Council, maybe even preventing me from possibly joining the Council in the future, which I have always hoped to do, but as Qui-Gon said to Obi-Wan, "I will do what I must..."
[Edited for clarity and spelling]

[Primrodo]

Well heres the deal...Karate Gis look like...karate Gis. It would work for say Lukes ANH costume but due to many design and fabric differences its easy to spot one out rather than looking you stepped out from the screen. And thats the big issue. Here at TJA we are striving to jump out of the movie and people will automatically think it as such.

The other thing is that this is a costume club, striving for accurate is an imporatnt drive in these clubs. Its like using a toy Colt for a han solo costume cause its a gun so it should work right?

I have seen Gi dyed and put on and you can tell its differnce, never mind the tabards and obi not matching.

As for the sabers, where does it state in the movies Jedi make their sabers? This is a debate I have often seen due to publications outside teh movie, a so-called EU-canon approach to the Jedi, however look at Anakin, Grieveous had a saber just like his in his hands against Obi-Wan in his final duel. Individual or not, having one made is acceptable as heck none of the actors didn't make theirs.

The thing the Gi argument boils down to is whether you should. Just cause you can go and buy one readily enough should you? Considering that you can't just go out and buy posterboard for a Stormtrooper (there have been those that tried) and join the 501st.

Quality is an isse, and when you are in a costume club whos target is set fairly high, really you must either accept that and meet them, or do whatever you want on your own, but leave yourself at a disadvantage.

I understand your qualm, and why it woudl seem unfair, but hey my first costume was a Rubies, then I went and bought fabric and asked someone to sew for me. If you can sew or willing to learn the costs of the Jedi costume goes down quite a bit.

really, all the reasons to accept a Gi there are two or three why we should not.

Buying is not the issue, its whats appropiate for this club and its standards.

[tanzanlinnear]

But again, this is the point I'm trying to make. There's nothing in the films or the eu that says Jedi make their own clothes either... (The Clone Wars showed Bariss making her saber, and Grievous' sabers were an in-joke (read 'laziness') on the part of the effects department)
Also, yes, this is a costume club with a high standard. However, I would say that the standard is too high and extremely elitist. Having spent a while here, it seems that there are much more 'board members' than members with accepted costumes, which to me, says that the standards are being set unnecessarily high, especially as it is primarily an online group that meets a few times a year, not like another site I am a member of, where the various regional groups meet at least every weekend. For me, for that level of interpersonal interaction, I think that the standard is excessive, especially as a 'board member' has essentially the same posting privilages as a 'costumed member'...
The level of detail you have put into your recreation of Anakin's costume is incredible, there's no denying that, but not everyone has the resources (or the inclination) to go to such extremes of accuracy. I wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't for the fact that the guidelines have only just been changed to exclude gi's, and that existing costumes are being 'grandfathered in'. If something doesn't meet the standard, it doesn't meet the standard, regardless of how long the person has been a member. There's one Jedi wearing wellington boots, for pity's sake! They are the lowest of the low of work boots, and cost less than a meal in McDonalds! If they can't be bothered to actually spend any money on their costume (gi's cost a lot more than wellington boots or bolts of fabric for machining) why should they be accepted? To be honest, I don't care anymore. I'm going to continue to finish my costume as I'd planned to, and submit it. If it gets accepted, then great. If it doesn't get accepted, then so be it.
[Edited to add]
This wasn't intended as a rant against you, Justin, so my apologies if it reads as such.

[Andle Di-Ranos]

Preach it brother, although I don't have a jedi costume at all. For the main reason i have no sewing experence so I have to rely on my mom to do this stuff, and she is one of the moms that says, "why don't spend all this time on your homework than making this junk you're never gonna use?" So i have to work on her time and I am forced to buy and cut up stuff to make it look right and since I don't have a job yet money is hard to come by.

[Schph Gochi]

I don't know if I am going to help here...or only make matters worse...

But correct...no one said that the Jedi made their own clothing....I don't think that was the intent...
But...you know by looking at a Karate Gi...that it is what it is
and can be purchased on this planet...
at this time.

The idea of making your own...or hiring someone to make your Jedi tunic is to make it something that does not look "of this earth...of this time"...granted fabric is fabric etc...but...the goal of all the Jedi costumers here at TJA is not necessarily to have us all tackle a face character's costume...but to make sure that we look like we didn't just go and buy it. They don't sell Jedi tunics, tabards and sashes on the racks at Marshalls....

And...you are quite correct about the boots...not all of the boots are what we would like to see......
but..
footwear can be a real issue....I know many, many, Jedi that had to settle for less than they would like because trying to find footwear that fits can be difficult...many have trouble with boots that the calf is just too small (both men and women have expressed this dilemma)....odd sizes...and a host of other foot problems...and....you can be on your feet for very long periods of time...bad boots can ruin your feet...and your costume outing.

Tunics, on the other hand...are very forgiving....

And...as noted in other threads...Jedi costumes have gotten a VERY bad rap and rep and are often excluded in costuming events because of previous years of some rather dismal attempts....

And please note that I am not saying that about your costume....it is obvious that you have put thought and effort into making your garb....and it is something that you can be proud of...

We have over 900 people here now...and I am sure that all 900 have slightly different opinions...and I assure you ....trying to make a code for now and for the future is not something that anyone on the Council took lightly...

And some people still have not reached the "Jedi" status...simply because they have never gotten around to sending in their photos and going through the process...I see a lot of names out there posting...that I know have costumes...but they were still not seen at the main site (when it was up)....some also have pieces missing and prefer to wait to join till they have everything as they like it...

Hope I didn't make matters worse...

[tanzanlinnear]

You certainly haven't made matters worse, Master Gochi, but neither have you been able to shed much illumination on the issues :-\ I understand fully about the difficulties of footwear, my feet are almost a size narrower than the length, so I have a terrible time trying to find shoes that fit properly, and my fiance has recently been looking at knee length boots, but been unable to get them to do up at the sides. But I don't understand why the Council has been lenient over something like footwear, but is not prepared to be lenient over a gi, which is covered by tabards, obi and belt, not on full display as the boots are. I guess what I'm trying to say (without sounding like I'm trying to get someone's membership revoked) is why were they accepted in the first place when their boots are not acceptable, and why are they still allowed to be a member?
If it is indeed because people are being given a grace period to make changes, then could a similar system of provisional membership not be implemented for people in a similar situation as myself, where 99% of the costume is acceptable (and which you said is something I can be proud of) but there is that 1% that needs correcting, so it would be a provisional membership that could then be reviewed in the same 6 month period and then suspended if the necessary amendments to the costume have not been made?
I'm sorry for losing my temper earlier, I'm just finding it extremely frustrating and disapointing, that leniency is being shown to existing members, (who never post on the boards anyway) but none is being shown to new members, which, if they were given a provisional membership, might encourage them to make that final bit of effort so their costume is 'screen accurate', rather than just settling for it being 'recognizeable' and adequate for their own costuming needs. Having standards is one thing, but when it is such an extreme standard, and leniency is shown towards existing members who should not have passed muster in the first place, but none is shown towards potential members who are trying to make the effort, does the Council not see that this is not encouraging Jedi to make their costumes a certain way because they want to, but because they have to, and the ultimate result may be that Jedi turn away from the Assembly...
As I said before, Yareal Poof, Ki-Adi Mundi and Master Yoda all have clothing that is nowhere near the same as that worn by other Jedi, could this canon example not be adopted to accept variations of garments?

As a direct challenge to anyone... Does my costume look like a Jedi costume?

[Starkindler (The Naked Jedi)]

it is to be noted that I voice only my opinion and DO NOT speak for the forum or TJA:

As I see it your costume utilizes a darker color palette than "Cannon" as well as alternate styling. It would best be described as an original EU costume. The Gi, though nicely dyed, does still look like one to me (but I still have my old one well worn and therefore notice such things easily). it is mainly in the drape and collar of the Gi that it seems to differ from a Jedi. If all of the other costume elements were "screen accurate" and the color of the Gi beige or such I would think it fit well enough to pass.

I would say that your costume looks well made and should fit as an original EU costume and not a cannon one....which places it in the realm of Council's discretion.
That is the issue.
Council's discretion is governed by the ideals and image TJA wishes to project and not every costume will fit that mold. That is not meant to detract from the costumer's expression, investment, or enthusiasm. The TJA seeks to be a publicly visible costuming association that meets the standards for screen accurate Jedi costumes as set out by Lucasarts (or Films, or whatever) in an attempt to be able to participate in "official" as well as non official events.

The issue of boots and belts being black is a small one to my eyes. Until this forum I hadn't even noticed much above the fact that JEdi wore tall boots and wide belts...color and style of these items weren't the main tags of a Jedi to me. The main tags were:
Lightsaber hung from a wide fairly nondescript belt
the outer tunic with it's distinctive drape, collar, and color(s)
The tabbards with their distinct color(s) and general cut
apparently pocketless pants tucked into high, laceless boots
and of course the robe

that said Screen Jedi to me....and still does..........


Perhaps there should be levels of membership directly connected to one's costume?
Cannon
non-cannon original
EU specific
though that would likely make things a bit unwieldy........

I do not intend to muddy the waters or foment an ongoing dispute, just offering my 2cents worth......

I do hope to one day have a screen accurate costume put together....perhaps a year from now on my budget.

[Primrodo]

I for one don;t want to see a group divided up lioke the Rebel Legion has had happened by lowering standards and splitting hairs on certain issues because of a few vocal gripes.

Not aimed at anyone, but seeing Canon vs NonCanon issues are headaching.

What I remain to think is that this is a costume group with standards to join...you'd find no less at other costume groups...

I also know that all costumes are in a state of flux, and starting with a Gi isn;t an issue, but teh hope of teh council and that as a costumer is that as you go along that you will decide to ugrade to a proper made tunic...which by the way you'll love more than that Gi...especially if fully lined

There is a point in the costumeing hobby that yuo just want to stop and do with what you have, and thats fine, but that is an interpersonal thing and not at all teh objective of costume groups like the TJA.

If you ask around I have not had a screen accurate costume for awhile...can tyou belive I wore a black costume for a while!

I set myself to look into details and see how and what variations ths costumes have, and you woudl be surprised on just how similar they all are. Half of costuming is reseach and I researched for 3 years and only now have the best boots ever, and I had to custom order fabric and bring about a few other things to happen and most of all there was places that helped push my knowledge and want to be the best.

Now I don't mean that in any elitist fashion, but what I mean is that I want to be teh best I can be, and within this year I will have one of the most accurate Anakin costumes (watch for a thread sometime with pics of my costume journey )

i doon't much like grandfather clauses either and I woudl like to see a up to date memberlist monthly reorganized and looked through. If someone leaves for over a year then they shoudl be put on a back burner since they don;t represent actual members.

As for boots, I think everyone knows my opinion on these....you can get fair priced boots from Ebay or even from Tack shops, no excuses now...no excuses to have black boots either

[Leda EmBorr]

Tanzan, I can see that you have put alot of thought and planning into the design of your costume. I remember the drawing you posted of it. It's a very nice design, I like it, and it looks great on you. I also, am making an original design based on the comic book character Jedi Master Fay...

One of the things to remember is that first and foremost, the costume is for you... not the tja council or the rest of the club... just you. You are the one who will wear it proudly. Don't make a costume just to get into a club... that's when it stops being fun. We set the standards to encourage people to improve on their current costumes and to teach them how to make their costumes as close to professional grade as possible without flying to India to buy fabric! That's why we are called a "costuming club"; it's our primary function.

Article I. Mission Statement
The Jedi Assembly is a worldwide fan-based group for Star Wars Jedi costuming enthusiasts. It is our intent to further enhance the Star Wars genre by recreating movie-accurate Jedi costumes and props for our enjoyment, as well as others. We encourage Jedi costumers at all ability levels to join and share their knowledge with others.

And share, they did!

Years ago, before I joined here or even knew about TJA and the RL, I had a worn out Karate gi that I was going to dye, but it just didn't hang right so I never wore it. It didn't look like Jedi gear to me, it just felt like I was off to the dojo with my bathrobe and snowboots! I wanted to look like I could have stepped off the movie set... I wanted it to look real... for myself. But I didn't know how... so I bought a Rubies! Bad idea! Eventually I traced the gi on paper and sewed a tunic with tabbards/obi by hand. Since I had never sewn before (yes, I hemmed my kids pants with duct tape and attatched buttons with twistie-ties), it ended up looking like pajamas! And then I found these message boards and people helped me figure out how to get what I wanted.

But I'm not saying that everyone wants the same thing. People want to be creative and design stuff, they want to make costumes for LARP, they want to look like their video game character or whatever. That's fantastic... we can suggest fabrics, give pattern tips, gear sources, etc. We are here to help. We can tell you how to make your design into a professional grade costume, sans karate gi.

It should be said, also, that not everyone has the same costuming standards. A karate gi might be what you want, and that should be your first priority, rather than gaining membership to a club. If you are limited in funds and you can only make one costume, it should be to please yourself, not us. But we know you won't want just one!

So, make your costume... submit it... (make sure the pics are bright and clear) And remember, the only requirement to be on the message board is age, enthusiasm, and something to share!

[Leda EmBorr]

And yes Tanzan, I think it looks like a Jedi costume... I like the design, the sleeveless robe, etc. The gi does stand out as a gi, but it is nicely dyed. Maybe I've just seen one too many gi's in my life...


My question to you is, are you happy with it?

[Schph Gochi]

And....the difference between boots and tunics is obvious...

I sewed my first Jedi tunic with no sewing experience and no sewing machine...totally by hand....with a needle and thread....

I don't think I could have made boots with no prior experience...and no leatherworking tools.....the task is a little more heady....

Do I think your costume looks Jedi?
For the most part....yes....
I fully understand the differences between Ki-Adi's style and other styles...I was the one who made the sleeveless Ki-Adi style robe that was part of the Charity Jedi Raffle at Celebration III....I don't think anyone has issue with that....

And as far as lightsabers....indeed...it has always been a part of Jedi lore that the final task that a Jedi performs before graduating from Padawan to Knight is to make their own lightsaber....they supposedly construct their own as their connection to the force and ...let's face it...to totally understand something ...one must start from scratch....was this covered in the movies....I really don't remember that it was so stated....

Did I make my own lightsaber?....yes...do I carry it?...no...made of heavy metals...it ends up too heavy to carry on my belt for long periods...so I generally have a non-working Park's Saber...which is very lightweight aluminum...clipped to my belt....I have been at events where I have spent as much as 24 hours continually in my costume....(no sleep)...and that home-made saber becomes like a boat anchor after a couple hours.

There is no comparison between toy Hasbro sabers and a purchased saber like "Random Sabers"....
it goes back to the mass produced thing....
I did several outings in costume this summer that were poplulated with mass quantities.... and I mean MASS quantities...... of kids with Hasbro sabers....all of the kids were fascinated by the mostly Master Replicas FX Edition lightsabers that most of us Jedi carried in addition to our home-made sabers on our belts....the kids knew the difference between the mass produced...and the hand made and replica sabers....

It goes back to "of this planet.....of this time"....

and agreed....if you like it ...that is all that is important!
I too started out with a costume that I liked...but as I upgraded it....I liked it even better....and it wasn't until I encountered all the costumes at Celebration 2 that I saw the shortcomings of my costume...and vowed it would be better for Celebration 3.....for me...and no one else....

[Ani-Chay Pinn]

In the picture, it looks like the thread on the collar of the gi did not take the dye. That is always the bane of dying any finished piece of clothing, the thread not absorbing the dye the same way the fabric did. Unfortunately, that makes it look more like a gi than a Jedi tunic to me. There is hardly any overstitching in the movie costumes and I can't think of any in a contrasting color.