Masters and Padawans

[Ani-Chay Pinn]

The Master-Padawan relationships I see in the movies look awfully patronizing. It's pretty clear from the first scene in TPM who's the master and who's the learner. Obi-wan just takes it in stride; he obviously sees a purpose in the chain-of-command of Jedi life. But it just generates friction with Annakin when Obi-wan teachess exactly the same way that Qui-gon instructed him.

I can see why Obi-wan dosen't know what to do about it; he's much too conventional to figure out how to deal with the insufferable teenage hormone-bomb that Annakin turned into. It's a pity that you only see a few likeable glimpses of that sweet kid from Tatooine, but Palpatine was feeding Annakin's ambition. Obi-wan doesn't even know that his student has another master.

[Jauhzmynn Enz]

I noticed that too. I think each relationship between mentor and student is differant. Some isn't patronizing. I'd treat my padawan with great respect and care, cuz he or she is a gift entrusted to me.

[Leda EmBorr]

It's kind of like raising a child... there has to be a balance between how much you do for them and how much you let them flounder with on their own. And that balance is always in flux.

It's like surfing.

But Obi-Wan had Palpatine interfering... I wonder what would have happened if he didn't... would Anakin still have found his way to the dark side?

[Ani-Chay Pinn]

Jedi masters take on padawan learners who are young enough that the relationship really IS like raising a child. When does a Jedi padawan legally become an adult in the old Republic? Since planets elect queens when they're 16, I'd guess it's pretty young for the padawans. 12? 13?

I don't really think that there is any intention on the part of Qui-gon or Obi-wan to be patronizing to their students; they probably would be surprised that anyone would see it that way. I think the master-attitude is just a development of the whole Jedi order over the centuries. All that duty and tradition ends up looking a little stiff. And Qui-gon did say that being a Jedi was a hard life; part of that has to be the discipline required by the training.

Annakin came from outside all that, and I don't think he quite takes the rules seriously. He likely would have been an independent teenager no matter what, but Palpatine is definitely the influence driving him toward the dark side. I'm not sure he would have fallen without that, but he is pre-disposed toward fear, anger and ambition. You can see the ambition even in TPM.

[Leda EmBorr]

Yeah, you can see his temper in the deleted scene where Anakin lashes out at his friend for accusing him of cheating. I wish they had left that scene in. It would contribute to his character development.

[Ani-Chay Pinn]

Yes, it would have been nice to have the fight between Annakin and Greedo. But you did see Annakin's ambition and I think that got him into even more trouble than his anger.

Annakin certainly did mind what Qui-gon told him, but I have a feeling that Qui-gon would have had the same problem that Obi-wan had once the kid turned into a teenager. As a Jedi, Annakin makes Qui-gon look positively conventional. The philosophy of being a Jedi seems only skin deep with Annakin-the-teenage-padawan; he knows all the forms by heart, but it still doesn't guide his actions.

Obi-wan was a very serious padawan and I think that Qui-gon was grateful that at least one of them followed the rules sometimes. Even when they disagreed with each other, Obi-wan was still always trying to see Qui-gon's point of views. Annakin is so certain that he knows everything that you just can't tell him anything.

[Jan-Qui Coran]

I think with Annakin it started with the loss of his mother. Then it didn't take much for him to follow the dark side even though he had lots of help to see the light.

[Ani-Chay Pinn]

Yes, when Anakin's mother died he couldn't move on from it. Part of the light side is moving on. "That is the way of things," as Yoda said. You saw that in Luke with all the deaths he had to deal with. If Obi-Wan had survived ANH, Luke would have been an excellent padawan, but that's just not the way it was for him.

Obi-Wan was just as heartbroken when Qui-Gon died. But he dealt with it; the death became part of him without overwhelming everything else.

[Aayla]

i just think anakinis the way he is because hes majorly upset and angry after the death of quigon because he looked up to quigon and was maybe a little dissapointed and annoyed that it was obiwan teaching him rather than quigon because there was a bond between guigon and anakin but with anakin and obiwan the bond is not as strong which makes him doupt his masters judgement, also the death of his mother really didnt help

[Aston Jor-Cello]

It does make me wonder, what would have Anakin been like if he had been trained by Qui-gon? I know people have posed this question before, but I don't know if anyone has touched on this aspect, but as we have seen in Ep.3 that Palpatine was destined to take over the Republic anyway, but if Qui-gon was still alive and had trained Anakin, would he have still turned to the darkside the way he did, or would have the Jedi risen up and destroyed Palpatine at that point when he was trying to rule the galaxy? How do you guys think those turn of events would have panned out?

[Ani-Chay Pinn]

I don't think Anakin would have turned out any better or worse than he did if Qui-Gon had lived UNLESS Qui-Gon had left him on Tatooine after he freed him. That's what would have made the difference. In the end, that's the upbringing that Luke ended up with. Palpatine still could have gotten his hooks into Anakin if Qui-Gon had been his master.....even worse Dooku could have gotten to Anakin through Qui-Gon.

[Aston Jor-Cello]

Good points, there Ani-Chay.

[Aayla]

i realise that but if quigon was still alive when the events of ep 3 things would have turned out for the better because you would have obi wan and quigon helping anakin rather than just one and i think anakin would have listened to quigon because of what quigon did for him back on tatooine and all the confidence obiwan had for anakin etc

[tanzanlinnear]

I don't think Qui-Gon was ever patronizing towards Obi-Wan. He occasionally reminded him of his lessons, but never in a condescending way. I think Anakin's problem is as Master Windu first said: He was too old to begin the training. If he'd been raised in the Temple, I doubt he would have had the anger he had, which I think stems, not from the death of his mother, from his resentment of being a slave (remember how he first snapped at Padme when she asked if he was a slave?) I think that was what initially put the chip on his shoulder and made him so obsessed with being better than anyone else. Obi-Wan never wanted to train Anakin, but did so to honor Qui-Gon's dying wish. But, it's like someone who's just passed their driving test becoming a driving instructor. I think Qui-Gon was probably the only one who could have been able to train Anakin properly, because I think he would have let him explore his power to it's fullest potential rather than stiffling it, which Obi-Wan did by trying to keep him in line.

[Seda Navilli]

Anger was Anakin's downfall, but that anger came from a big no-no in the Jedi code; attatchment. For this reason, I believe that if Anakin had been trained by Qui-Gon it would have made little difference to how he turned out. He would have been as attatched to Qui Gon as he was to Obi Wan, and would have felt just as betrayed when Palpatine poisined Anakin against his master. The real tragedy is that the only way Anakin could have dodged his destiny was if he had stayed on Tatooine as a slave. Sort of a lose-lose situation, isn't it?