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Post by Shoshana Win on May 22, 2002 20:22:00 GMT -5
The girls love him because he is very attractive! Not in a model sort of way, but in a rugged, Harrison Ford way. And with that type, it only gets better with age! ;D
Actually, he has very compelling eyes, and as I said before, rugged good looks. Not perfect by any means, but that is what's so compelling. And I have to agree with Czuco, he has a very nice smile. It makes him seem warm and personable, and is also somewhat mysterious.
Wait a minute....didn't I say before that I wasn't attracted to him..........oops.........better not let Solorad see this........... ;D
Actually, he doesn't care, mainly because he looks a lot like Ewan. Kinda of weird, but that may be one reason why I like Ewan/Obi-Wan so much!
Other reasons I like Obi-Wan are stated in my above posts. He's a Jedi, and that makes him Uber-cool! ;D
As for the husband joke, you are forgiven for now. Sorry if I seem touchy about it, but there is a reason for it.
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Post by Bombad Jedi on May 22, 2002 20:22:37 GMT -5
I think he lookd better in Moulin ROugh then Star Wars. But then againthats just me. In brassed off you got a view of his naked backside ;D
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Post by Shoshana Win on May 22, 2002 20:42:05 GMT -5
In Pillow talk, he is apparently naked for most of the movie!! Haven't seen it yet though.............. I was extremely surprised at his ability to sing in Moulin Rouge. He was pretty good!
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Post by Shoshana Win on May 23, 2002 0:01:36 GMT -5
Okay Eqin, ready for the next round of Obi-Wan? First, the Webster's Dictionary's definition of wimp is--a weak, ineffectual, or insipid person. Please keep this definition in mind as you read this post, since a lot of what I say is based upon this definition. Second, I think you need to read the book before you decide that Obi-Wan is a wimp (I am assuming that you haven't yet of course ). There is a lot more revealed in the book about what he is thinking. For instance: 1. He has a very healthy respect for Jango, which he should, considering Jango is the best bounty hunter in the galaxy. Meaning he is no slouch and should be approached with caution. However, that does not keep Obi-Wan from engaging in a fight with him, therefore Obi-Wan cannot be called a coward (part of your definition for wimp). To call it even, Obi-Wan did not beat Jango, but Jango did not beat Obi-Wan either. That does not make Obi-Wan weak or a bad fighter by any means. Remember, this is the guy who took out Darth Maul (and quite magnificently, I might add). When you read the book, you will see that Jango is actually slightly afraid of the Jedi, and admits to Boba that Obi-Wan could/would have taken him out. Boba's interference in the fight helped Jango, and therefore skewed the outcome of the fight. Had Boba not interfered.............things probably would have been drastically different. And just because a warrior does not always have the upper hand in a battle doesn't mean he won't win it. What he does and how he reacts when he doesn't have the upper hand (you'll understand what I mean when you read the book) contributes to his effectiveness as a warrior. 2. JANGO was the pilot in the asteroid field, not Boba. If you look closely at the scene, you can see that Jango has taken over the pilot's seat. Boba is just shouting encouragement. This is backed up again by the book. Jango says in the book that Obi-Wan is indeed an excellent pilot, especially considering the way he dodges the blaster fire. Jango does get him, but again, Jango is an excellent pilot and fighter himself. As for being smart enough to eject the spare parts canisters to avoid the missle, intelligence is an aspect that makes a warrior effective. Using intelligence in a fight is usually much more effective than brute force. Some people may call that wimpy, but I can't help that. Take a look at any book written about/by warriors (such as the Samuari), and you will see that intelligence is extremely important and valued and makes a warrior much more effective. 3. There WAS more than one destroyer droid that came after Obi-Wan. Again, this is backed up by the book. Also, what I meant by a futile fight is that engaging in the fight went against Obi-Wan's mission. His mission was to gather information for the Jedi Council, and he certainly couldn't do that if he wound up dead. Jedi are excellent warriors, but they aren't immortal. He had transmitted the message about the situation on Geonosis and knew that the Jedi would come looking for him soon. Staying alive would allow him to obtain much more information about the situation. Again, he is using his intelligence. No matter what you have learned during your "street fights" about other people's opinions (about whether or not to engage in a fight), engaging in every fight that you are faced with does not make you an effective or strong warrior. Also, refusing to fight does not make you a coward. You don't have to beat someone up to prove that you are stronger than him. Sometimes refusing to fight takes far more courage. And again, brute force does not always win a fight. So, avoiding a fight that may only get Obi-Wan wounded or killed makes him a smart, effective warrior. And finally Obi-Wan is not scared of destroyer droids (as seen in TPM), he just understands their capabilities. Continued in next post (apparently, the whole thing was too long! )
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Post by Shoshana Win on May 23, 2002 0:02:24 GMT -5
Obi-Wan continued ............................... 4. As for the fight with Dooku, the book goes into much better detail than can be seen in the movie. Obi-Wan was totally outmatched by Dooku. One reason that I stated before, was that Dooku has far more experience than Obi-Wan and therefore should be a better fighter. Also, Dooku was trained by the Master himself, Yoda. Again, that gives him a huge advantage over Obi-Wan. In the book though, you really find out why Obi-Wan does not fare well against Dooku, and it all comes down to fighting techniques. Dooku uses a much older fighting technique that has been largely abondoned by the Jedi in favor of the current technique. The old technique is much more fluid, quick, and efficient than the current one. So.........you really can't blame Obi-Wan for not faring well in his fight against Dooku. He was totally outclassed and he KNEW it. However, just because he was outmatched doesn't mean that he is a wimp!!!!! Come on, the mere fact that he CONTINUED to fight Dooku and gave 100% after he realizes just how outclassed he is is a perfect demonstration of his courage (which again, is part of your definition). I really suggest you read this part of the book (if you haven't), as it is really enlightening. 5. As to helping Anakin in his fight against Dooku, the book also clarifies the issue. First, Obi-Wan was hurt much more severely than I thought (but he still manages to keep all of his appendages ). Second, HE DOES try to help Anakin, but is unable to do so because of his wounds. Therefore, he helps the only way he can, by throwing Anakin his lightsaber. Finally, before Obi-Wan has a chance to do anything after Anakin's arm was cut off, Yoda shows up to kick Dooku's butt. So, we will never know what Obi-Wan would have done. I personally believe, from what I know about Obi-Wan's character, that he would have continued to fight to the death. This is the most honorable AND courageous way for a warrior to die. 6. Finally, I know what you meant when you said that all the girls seem to love Obi-Wan . I just felt like declaring who my true love is ;D ;D ;D. After all, we did just celebrate our 10th wedding anniversary! Okay, enough mushy stuff!!!! Man, that was long.................................. ;D
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Post by Bombad Jedi on May 23, 2002 7:40:57 GMT -5
Oh I want in this now!.... GOing back a post or two about your definition of Wimp.
A: being a coward..... Obi-Wan is far from being a coward..... He went after the guys even though he knew he might not win. That signifies he has great currage. Loosing a fight doesn't make you a coward. IF that was the case then by your definition I would be a wimp. Now no i'm not physically capable of doing much against a person by using brute force, thats why I need to fight with my head, and not my physical capabilities.....
This also ties into what you said about being a bad fighter= a wimp. Again this would apply to me making me a wimp. I've never won a sparing match against any one bigger then myself... only people the same size or smaller. And I know why to but i'm not saying. Does that clasify me as a wimp? I fight with my heart, but in order to win you gotta fight with your head. Obi-wan used his head, Anakin used his heart. Look what happens. Dooku is an old guy and he beat out a young person. Why? because he used his head.
Obi-Wan is not a wimp. And I think he would have continued fighting if Yoda hadn't come. If I was in Obi-Wan's place I would have done the same things he did. does that make me a wimp?
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Eqin Ilis
Message Board Member
Rebel through and through
Posts: 1,168
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Post by Eqin Ilis on May 23, 2002 12:26:51 GMT -5
That wasn't what I meant. But since you've managed to find that 1 small detail and make it practically our whole argument, I'll explain (by example) what I meant by "Obi-Wan is a wimp," ok? I would've defined 'wimp', but that's next to impossible since it is a slang word. And I understand slang in loose terms with many conotations rather than in Webster's Diccionary terms with few conotations. *BIG hint*
He is not a coward. I thought that in your first post you took wimp to mean coward. That was how it found it's way into my definiton, and I'm VERY sorry I didn't clarify that.
You also seem to think that if he wins a fight he's not a wimp. That's not what I meant either. (You don't understand me very well, do you?) I meant that EVEN THOUGH he wins, he fights badly. He uses his head well, but he uses his muscles and his lightsaber badly. That make sense?
What I meant is that he can't fight. I know, he wins fights, he uses his head, and he's supposed to do that. Yadda yadda yadda. But his lightsaber skills are pathetic. (In comparison to other Jedi, not non-jedi.) And in the fight with Dooku, Anakin saves him. I know, Dooku was more expierianced, Anakin had two lightsabers, Obi-Wan used the wrong fighting style, but that doesn't change the fact that he lost. Not only did he loose, he lost by a humongous margin, so I think he's a wimp. I am not arguing that he doesn't win, but that he almost doesn't because he lacks any fighting skills other than strategy.
I hope this clarifies wimp for you. (By example rather than definition, wince it's rather a broad term to be defined and it's meaning mistaken AGAIN.) If it doesn't, than I'm through with this argument, because it's a matter of opinion and opinions can't be argued if we don't understand the vocabulary.
Who the h311 cares about the book?! We're arguing about what I throught from seeing THE MOVIE! And besides, even if I wanted to read the book I couldn't. I'm a teenager and my mom won't let me read it. So please stick to the movie and stop bringing the book into this.
To call it even, Obi-Wan did not beat Jango, but Jango did not beat Obi-Wan either. That does not make Obi-Wan weak or a bad fighter by any means. Remember, this is the guy who took out Darth Maul (and quite magnificently, I might add).
No, the fact that neither one won doesn't make him anything. But his fighting stunk. (Not the way he used his brain to get out of a bad situation, the way he used his muscles.) And as for taking out Darth Maul, do I have to remind you that he was hanging on to something 5 feet below the Sith... with no lightsaber? Yeah, he beat Darth Maul in the end, but he still ALMOST got his butt kicked. (No he didn't loose, note: I said ALMOST!!!!)
Again, he is using his intelligence. No matter what you have learned during your "street fights" about other people's opinions (about whether or not to engage in a fight), engaging in every fight that you are faced with does not make you an effective or strong warrior. Also, refusing to fight does not make you a coward. You don't have to beat someone up to prove that you are stronger than him. Sometimes refusing to fight takes far more courage.
I'm still not arguing about Obi-Wan here, but this really annoyed me. In my "street fights" I didn't learn jack (slang term, ask ateenager instead of looking it up) about other people's opinions. (These are MY OWN opinions.) What I learned was that when you are attacked the consequences of surrenduring are always far worse than fighting. (They'll just attack you again after you're set free /get away, and until that happens, they torture you.) And refusing a fight never takes more courage. I refused plenty of fights, and not one time did it take courage. On the other hand, it took alot of guts to punch the kid that was 3 times my size, and a better fighter than me. People who say what you've said are far too idealistic, and they have probably never been in a real fight.
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Post by Shoshana Win on May 23, 2002 14:04:12 GMT -5
Actually, I have been in real fights, and I got my butt kicked. I am an extremely bad fighter, which is why I avoid fights (except verbal ones ;D) whenever possible. I am definitely a wimp, according to your definition of the "slang" word. And yes, I know that slang words have more than one meaning depending on who you are talking to. I was trying to get a standard definition that we could all work from . And I know what "jack" means, considering that slang word has been around and has been used since before you were born . I don't need a teenager to define it for me. As for the book...........IT IS THE OFFICAL BOOK BASED ON THE SCRIPT AND WRITTEN IN VERY CLOSE COLLABORATION WITH GEORGE LUCAS, THEREFORE IT IS CANON AND DOES APPLY TO THIS DISCUSSION!!!!!!!!!!! (someone besides Eqin please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but that is my understanding based on what I have researched). Just because certain parts didn't make it into the movie doesn't invalidate it. And I'm sorry that your mom won't let you read it! You can see the movie, but not read the book? Why? I apologize that you misunderstood what I said about "street fighting." I did not mean to use the term in a derogatory manner, though when I go back and read it I can see how you would have taken it that way. However, there is a big difference between untrained individuals involved in a fight (which is what I call street fighting), and TRAINED indviduals involved in a fight. There is a whole different set of rules and customs, and therefore different definitions apply to them. As for being idealistic, I don't think that there is anything wrong with that. Idealism is what keeps this country strong, in my opinion. And yes, it takes great courage to walk away from a fight and deal with the consequences. That I have done before, and I am not ashamed of it. It was the right thing to do, and I didn't really care what others may have thought of me (Mind you, I am not saying that you do!). Maybe one day you'll be able to learn that on your own. I certainly can't change your mind!!! As they say, experience is the best teacher. And I am not denying that it takes a lot of courage to hit someone that is 3 times your size. It definitely does!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Finally, I guess it comes down to this.......we can't seem to agree on Obi-Wan's fighting skills, which if I am correct (even if it took me a while ), is what this discussion is really about right? I think he is, and you don't. So.......I guess we better agree to disagree and leave it at that, huh? I certainly don't/didn't want this to become nasty, so I will apologize if anything I have said has offended you. Truce?
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Post by Bombad Jedi on May 23, 2002 14:56:14 GMT -5
Just because he cant use a weapon it doesnt make him a wimp.... Thats make him unskilled..... Theres a big difference there. And personally i think it's good that he "lost"... If you ask me everyone in the world from the richest person to the ugliest person need to have 2 things in their life. 1 great victory, and 1 great defeat. Obi-Wan got both of those. He got Darth Maul and now Count Dooku got him. That doesnt make him a wimp.... that makes him human.... There is always someone better then you and always someone worse then you.... To think other wise makes you either conceated, or you need some seriosue work on you confidence skills.... I don't see Obi-Wan as beeing a wimp..... A wimp wouldn't have even gone into the fight to begin with. If you want to dump on Obi-Wan for loosing a fight then call him a weakling not a wimp....
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Post by Xana on May 23, 2002 18:49:08 GMT -5
"Ah Hahahahahaha!!" *Laughs hysterically at the thought that Obi-Wan Kenobi is a wimp!* That was a good one!
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Eqin Ilis
Message Board Member
Rebel through and through
Posts: 1,168
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Post by Eqin Ilis on May 24, 2002 10:09:04 GMT -5
Ok, Shoshana. Truce.
Czewie, people who are weak and "unskilled" fighters are called wimps. At least when I hear it. There's alot more to the term than just weak and unskilled though, and I don't know how to list it all wihtout sounding wierd. But I did learn something because of this argument on 'wimp'. My English teacher and my mom both thought wimps were defined as cowards, but all the other high-schoolers (also Californians, I don't know if it's different on the East Coast) thought wimps were little weaklings. Interesting how words have a way of changing on us, isn't it?
Just thought I'd add this in, since you asked a question. You can see the movie, but not read the book? Why? Because the movie only "wastes" 2.5 hrs of my time. The book would be too much. This is the same mother that won't let me read comic books because they aren't "good literature". It's basically 'cause she figures that if I'm home-schooled, everything I read should be able to count as school (even if it's just for fun). But I only have one more year 'till college, so I don't mind.
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Post by Shoshana Win on May 24, 2002 10:58:58 GMT -5
Ah, that makes sense. I must say I don't agree with your mother, but I guess I can understand what she is trying to do. My mom was awesome about letting me read whatever I wanted to (as long as my homework was done ;D). She didn't really care, as long as I was reading. She figured that I had enough "boring" (which to me means the "classics" ) stuff to read for school, and that I needed other books that interested me to read. Not that I needed much encouragement to read anything. It used to really annoy my dad when he would give me a chore to do, and as I passed the newspaper on the dining room table, I would stop to read!!! He HATED that ;D. But I was a closet reader too, one of those kids that would hide a flashlight under the covers so I could read after the lights were put out. What fun!!! My mom used to catch me, and you could tell that she really didn't care that I was reading, but she did want to make sure that I would get enough sleep for school the next day. She was the same way when she was a kid!! Even today, if I find a book I like, I will spend all day reading it. I read all four Harry Potter books in 4 days!! Not that they were hard to read, but you get the idea of my obsession! I'm glad you'll get the opportunity to read more of what interests you when you go to college. I believe that you don't have to read just good literature to expand your vocabulary and brain power. Anything will do, even comic books!! I'm living proof of that! Most of the books I read are fantasy/sci-fi. I need the release, considering the dry scientific stuff I have to read for school/work!!!! As for the difference in the definition of words, you are spot on!!! It is amazing how different people define different words, based on common usage and experience. Solorad is actually very interested in linguistics, and language shifts fascinates me too. And it just goes to prove how this argument/discussion began---because we couldn't agree on the definition of the word wimpy!!! My definition is closer to your mom's and your English teachers, versus you and your friends definitions. I guess that's what dictionaries are for huh ! And why they are constantly updated!!!!
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Eqin Ilis
Message Board Member
Rebel through and through
Posts: 1,168
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Post by Eqin Ilis on May 24, 2002 18:20:57 GMT -5
LOL Actually, my mom used to be really nice about reading, almost exactly the way you describe your mom. It's just that ever since I started homeschooling she's been worried about falling into the traps some other homeschoolers do, and not educating me. So that means she wants to make sure I read enough American Literature (which I probably don't). (English Lit wasn't a problem, since I'm into medieval stuff, and all my fav authors are English.) She also has this wierd idea that all high-schoolers have 3 hours of homework after school. And since I don't do a whole day of schoolwork plus 3 hours homework... But other than that, she's really cool. Just way to stressed out over me getting educated...
Oh yeah, I had a question. Why did you have to read under the covers? My mom never made me turn out the light unless it was keeping her up, so I used the nightlight alot. And she actually made it a rule in our house that as long as you got up without complaining (and withought going to sleep at school), you could stay up as late as you wanted. It was pretty cool, and I learned a little responsibility too.
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Post by Shoshana Win on May 24, 2002 20:22:22 GMT -5
It was my dad's fault, not my mom's!! He was really weird about having the lights on after a certain time at night. So I just started to read under the covers! ;D I must have woken up too many times complaining or bleary-eyed, so she started checking up on me when she knew I was reading a book for pleasure. Good thing too, because when I start reading, I lose all track of time. I'd look up and it would be 4am, and I have to be up for the bus by 5:30!! I didn't do that too often though, just when I had a REALLY good book. I've since learned not to read much during the school semester, even though I am in college now (actuall, I have been in college FOREVER!!). I'll only start a book during school if I have no tests for about a week or so, or if I can finish it on the weekend. But when summertime comes around.......................... ;D I'm glad your mom hasn't been like that forever-I thought she was!! She sounds pretty cool!!
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Post by Nova Darklighter on May 26, 2002 5:05:55 GMT -5
Shoshana, you sound a lot like me, I'm a junkie for the printed word, and I have to have something to read to get to sleep, it doesn't matter what! Reading a wide variety of things expands the vocabulary, any book can increase your knowledge(of something) I've leraned really surprising things in some of the most worthless, but enjoyable works of fiction. I'm mostly self taught, because I read so much, and I'll read almost anything. I'll give a kid a bood before anything else, whenever possible, but try to make it fun or interesting, so they'll want to read another. I think one of the saddest things about the age of tv/video is the loss of language skills in the young people, so many of them can't speak intelligently, or grammatically, and much of it is caused by the fact that kids don't read anymore.( Like, man, well you know what I uhh mean, right? ) I hear things like that in conversation daily, could you imagine having to read an entire novel written like that? Nothing would happen, and nothing would get said. Do you remember a few years ago, when they wanted to teach "Ebonics" as a language in school, we can't teach them to speak proper english, so we'll teach them really bad, incorrect language so they all speak equally badly, and there were parents who bought into this idea.
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