Post by Xana on May 3, 2005 21:47:24 GMT -5
I agree with everything Mynn has said above.
My purpose and tone was to get a response from those who defend the position and everyone scrambled to find evidence which has been good so far. Traditions have also been discussed and there have been many good points to ponder.
Your purpose and tone was to force everyone into wearing their sabers on the left hand side, regardless of evidence to the contrary, personal comfort, or anything else. No amount of evdidence that doesn’t support your theory will make you happy.
Excuse you, but you were NOT here when this club was formed. There are four founding members left who DO remember quite well the intentions we had when forming this club. We think we are doing a fine job of making Jedi costumes from the movies and from the EU that we accept. We are in the process of tighteneing our standards for those of us who wish to volunteer for LF, or officially represent us, but NOT for overall membership. That may remain the same. LFL and many of the 501st have complimemnted us on our costumes at CIII. And some of our members have ave been invited, by the 501st to attend Star Wars Disney weekends.
If you, or anyone else, at any time, is NOT happy here or with our standard, they are more than free to leave. There are other clubs out there to join. Or start a new one of your own. We did!!!
The Jedi costume is hardly the least expensive costume to make, and I am shocked to hear someone say that who claims to want everyone to have a fantastic costume. A bought lightsaber can cost up tp $400 alone! Boots can cost as much too, and so can a costume if you commission someone to make it for you. A Jedi costume, done well, can easily cost $1000! The myth that it is cheap only adds to making us look bad. And from what I hear, the Rebel Fleet Trooper costume is the cheapest to make.
I have yet to meet a person here who simply doesn't care about thier costume.
We DO have basic standards and hold to them. If you don't like them, then there's nothing I can do about that. The Council are the ones who make those decisions, and you have you have made your point. Feedback is always welcomed, but we make the final decisions. Arguing more will get you nowhere with us.
If standards aren't carefully plotted in the begining of a groups inception then there is mega resistance once a standard is discussed and the bar attempted to be raised, even slight improvements.
If, such a trivial subject like switching a side the lightsaber is worn on causes so much heated debate, even if some of that was to my strong original post then what will happen if it is attempted to raise the bar on the costume standards even slightly.
Again, WE will be the jugdes of that, thank you very much. If people have problems if we raise standards, I think the Council has taken enough blaster bolts in the last three years to handle a few more. Thanks for your concern. Many groups start out going in a certain direction and then revise things. I think we can handle it.
Trivial concern? Oh really? Then why argue it so vehemently? You seem to be the only one here taking it so seriously.
The rules and standards should be periodically updated and revised in order to push forward and improve. Those who resist such changes call this ellitism. I submit that it is not ellitism but just a natural progression to make improvements, or evolution. Members should make these changes on their own but some are always pushing the envelope either upward (as with me, I guess) and also downward. Beware of any downward push.........this causes dissention by some who might leave the organization and create a competitive group in order to make or keep standards higher and more screen accurate. Just like those who believe the standards should be lower can quit and do what they like. Whatever the standards, we can choose to be a part or choose not to join. If standards change then it is our choice to stay or go, or we can just comply.
It is sometimes forgotten that this site attracts those who are more seriously devoted to Jedi lore, costuming and props. This group is often ignored or blasted every time a subject is brooched that hints of improvement. I guess those who want low standards scream the loudest at conformity.
I actually agree with you there. Funny thing is, we get criticism for being TOO strict and TOO elite! This is the FIRST complaint I have received, ever, claiming that we aren't strict enough!
I have also NEVER seen where anyone was criticized for wanting to improve a costume. Myabe a misunderstanding over the intent of telling someone which parts to use, what is most accurate, or which glue is best, but NEVER over improving a costume.
And no, we haven't forgotten why we started this group, and do NOT need reminding.
This is not a personal attack on anyone although I am sure that some might take it that way. I believe that while the groups leaders always try and pacify those with low standards those who have higher get ignored. CIII brought many comments to my ears from other dissenters and although it is generally believed that I made that up and the comments came from me I assure you that they did not, although I agree with some of these sentiments. It illustrated that there are others who desire to see standards go up, although like I said earlier, only slight.
As one of the leaders of our local fanforce I have preached the benefits of maintaining high standards. We are small and those here locally have embraced the high standards with enthusiasm. Recently, with the premier coming they have begun to reap the great rewards of such screen authenticity. Being right or wrong never seems to be an issue, only the research and getting to the best, most accurate information. On this thread I have seen people respond with great anger and others who researched the info searching for enlightenment. I too missed the Visual Encyclopedia photo and am still researching its content and existence. Whatever the result it should be posted here so everyone can share.
Perhaps it is important that this is a reminder about the real purpose of any costuming/prop group, although, making friends and having great fun with conversations is a plus, I am reminded each time I view the headings of the thread goups. We are here to educate and enlighten others how to make not only costumes and props for all budgets but also push for the "best" screen accuracy.
I find it odd that no one but you heard any complaints about us. If someone else heard complaints, other than that our standards are too high, as was stated in another thread, I'd love to know. Really, I would. ;D
That's great about your local Fan Force, you should be very proud! Buy every group is different, and we think we do just fine.
Evidence has already been stated from the Visual Dictionary!
As to your last statement, it HAS been staed why we are here! To make Jedi costumes that are screen sccurate, within reason, budget, recognizablility, and talent, to make friends, and above all have FUN! Not all of our message board members are here to look like they have stepped out of the movies, and we are fine with that. It's an open forum for all to learn from and have fun with.
If you feel that we are not meeting those requirements to the best of your satisfaction, you are free to leave.
Kyrel-Dak said:
We have found one photo so far and that raises a good question that could have many different explanations. More research is on going. Saesee Tin is an interesting character because most photos of him show him with robe covering belt. My purpose and tone was to get a response from those who defend the position and everyone scrambled to find evidence which has been good so far. Traditions have also been discussed and there have been many good points to ponder.
Your purpose and tone was to force everyone into wearing their sabers on the left hand side, regardless of evidence to the contrary, personal comfort, or anything else. No amount of evdidence that doesn’t support your theory will make you happy.
Kyrel-Dak said:
However, this thread has illustrated what I have believed all along. My position is that The Jedi Assembly is supposed to be a costuming and prop group devoted to Jedi, this is proven by having some "basic" standards. In my opinion these standards are too low, not in the extreme mind you but some slight tweaks in the standards would improve the look of Jedi costumers. Some look great and have taken very high steps to get to screen accuracy. Others simply don't care about that and want to do whatever comes to mind, and I might add hope to get a pat on the back for their "creativity". Jedi clothing is near about the least expensive costume, allows for some creativity but there are always those who want to push that down to extreme limits.Excuse you, but you were NOT here when this club was formed. There are four founding members left who DO remember quite well the intentions we had when forming this club. We think we are doing a fine job of making Jedi costumes from the movies and from the EU that we accept. We are in the process of tighteneing our standards for those of us who wish to volunteer for LF, or officially represent us, but NOT for overall membership. That may remain the same. LFL and many of the 501st have complimemnted us on our costumes at CIII. And some of our members have ave been invited, by the 501st to attend Star Wars Disney weekends.
If you, or anyone else, at any time, is NOT happy here or with our standard, they are more than free to leave. There are other clubs out there to join. Or start a new one of your own. We did!!!
The Jedi costume is hardly the least expensive costume to make, and I am shocked to hear someone say that who claims to want everyone to have a fantastic costume. A bought lightsaber can cost up tp $400 alone! Boots can cost as much too, and so can a costume if you commission someone to make it for you. A Jedi costume, done well, can easily cost $1000! The myth that it is cheap only adds to making us look bad. And from what I hear, the Rebel Fleet Trooper costume is the cheapest to make.
I have yet to meet a person here who simply doesn't care about thier costume.
We DO have basic standards and hold to them. If you don't like them, then there's nothing I can do about that. The Council are the ones who make those decisions, and you have you have made your point. Feedback is always welcomed, but we make the final decisions. Arguing more will get you nowhere with us.
Kyrel-Dak said:
If standards aren't carefully plotted in the begining of a groups inception then there is mega resistance once a standard is discussed and the bar attempted to be raised, even slight improvements.
If, such a trivial subject like switching a side the lightsaber is worn on causes so much heated debate, even if some of that was to my strong original post then what will happen if it is attempted to raise the bar on the costume standards even slightly.
Again, WE will be the jugdes of that, thank you very much. If people have problems if we raise standards, I think the Council has taken enough blaster bolts in the last three years to handle a few more. Thanks for your concern. Many groups start out going in a certain direction and then revise things. I think we can handle it.
Trivial concern? Oh really? Then why argue it so vehemently? You seem to be the only one here taking it so seriously.
Kyrel-Dak said:
The rules and standards should be periodically updated and revised in order to push forward and improve. Those who resist such changes call this ellitism. I submit that it is not ellitism but just a natural progression to make improvements, or evolution. Members should make these changes on their own but some are always pushing the envelope either upward (as with me, I guess) and also downward. Beware of any downward push.........this causes dissention by some who might leave the organization and create a competitive group in order to make or keep standards higher and more screen accurate. Just like those who believe the standards should be lower can quit and do what they like. Whatever the standards, we can choose to be a part or choose not to join. If standards change then it is our choice to stay or go, or we can just comply.
It is sometimes forgotten that this site attracts those who are more seriously devoted to Jedi lore, costuming and props. This group is often ignored or blasted every time a subject is brooched that hints of improvement. I guess those who want low standards scream the loudest at conformity.
I actually agree with you there. Funny thing is, we get criticism for being TOO strict and TOO elite! This is the FIRST complaint I have received, ever, claiming that we aren't strict enough!
I have also NEVER seen where anyone was criticized for wanting to improve a costume. Myabe a misunderstanding over the intent of telling someone which parts to use, what is most accurate, or which glue is best, but NEVER over improving a costume.
And no, we haven't forgotten why we started this group, and do NOT need reminding.
Kyrel-Dak said:
This is not a personal attack on anyone although I am sure that some might take it that way. I believe that while the groups leaders always try and pacify those with low standards those who have higher get ignored. CIII brought many comments to my ears from other dissenters and although it is generally believed that I made that up and the comments came from me I assure you that they did not, although I agree with some of these sentiments. It illustrated that there are others who desire to see standards go up, although like I said earlier, only slight.
As one of the leaders of our local fanforce I have preached the benefits of maintaining high standards. We are small and those here locally have embraced the high standards with enthusiasm. Recently, with the premier coming they have begun to reap the great rewards of such screen authenticity. Being right or wrong never seems to be an issue, only the research and getting to the best, most accurate information. On this thread I have seen people respond with great anger and others who researched the info searching for enlightenment. I too missed the Visual Encyclopedia photo and am still researching its content and existence. Whatever the result it should be posted here so everyone can share.
Perhaps it is important that this is a reminder about the real purpose of any costuming/prop group, although, making friends and having great fun with conversations is a plus, I am reminded each time I view the headings of the thread goups. We are here to educate and enlighten others how to make not only costumes and props for all budgets but also push for the "best" screen accuracy.
I find it odd that no one but you heard any complaints about us. If someone else heard complaints, other than that our standards are too high, as was stated in another thread, I'd love to know. Really, I would. ;D
That's great about your local Fan Force, you should be very proud! Buy every group is different, and we think we do just fine.
Evidence has already been stated from the Visual Dictionary!
As to your last statement, it HAS been staed why we are here! To make Jedi costumes that are screen sccurate, within reason, budget, recognizablility, and talent, to make friends, and above all have FUN! Not all of our message board members are here to look like they have stepped out of the movies, and we are fine with that. It's an open forum for all to learn from and have fun with.
If you feel that we are not meeting those requirements to the best of your satisfaction, you are free to leave.