What were Yoda and Obi-Wan expecting Luke to do?

[Ani-Chay Pinn]

So, what did Yoda and Obi-Wan expect Luke to do? Did they know that Luke could turn Vader away from the dark side? Obi-Wan didn't seem to think so, and he looked like he meant it when he said it. Did they have a hazy Force-premonition that their only hope was to point Luke in the right direction and let things happen without knowing what they would be?

Luke in ROTJ obviously and mistakenly assumed that his task was to kill Darth Vader. Neither Obi-Wan nor Yoda corrected him on that, but Yoda only told Luke that he needed to CONFRONT Vader. Luke just jumped to conclusions. So, I don't think either expected Luke to kill him. Obi-Wan might have jumped to his own conclusion that when Luke said that he couldn't kill his father that meant he wasn't going to even confront him. Or maybe he just said it to make sure that Luke would try.

I cannot believe that Yoda and Obi-Wan ever expected Luke to take out the emperor, not after the battles we saw in ROTS. Luke may have his father's potential but none of the experience. Possibly they thought he could do Vader, but that wouldn't have saved the galaxy because killing the apprentice just doesn't get the Sith Lord; they've already done that and Sidius just got new apprentices.

Luke's greatest assets were his potential with the Force, the emotional connection that Vader felt toward him and the fact that he took being a Jedi as seriously as Obi-Wan without his father's ambitions. Did Yoda and Obi-Wan know that this was the winning combination?

[Leda EmBorr]

I think they just sent him along his destined path, and entrusted him to the will of the force.

[Seda Navilli]

adavenport said:

Did they know that Luke could turn Vader away from the dark side?

I don't think so. Both Obi Wan and Yoda had seen the evil things Anakin had done during RotS, they did not believe he could be turned back, and their dispositions and dialogue during the movie reflect this.

adavenport said:

Luke in ROTJ obviously and mistakenly assumed that his task was to kill Darth Vader.

I don't know where you got that impression - Luke pushes his point that Anakin can be turned back to the light many times during the movie, despite advice from Obi Wan.

adavenport said:

I cannot believe that Yoda and Obi-Wan ever expected Luke to take out the emperor

I think thats exactly what they expected; they may have seen the battles in RotS, but even after seeing all that Obi Wan says that the Emperor knew that if Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him.

I believe that Obi Wan and Yoda's plan was for Luke to defeat his father, and become a proper and balanced Jedi, stronger in the Skywalker lineage and thus stronger in the Force, a Jedi capable of defeating the Emperor. They didn't know it for certain, but it was their hope that he could. All of your assumptions seem to be based on two of the wisest Jedi in the galaxy "jumping to conclusions", where it makes perfect sense for their dialogue to be interpreted directly without over analisation.

Sorry if I'm sounding a bit rude, its been a long day, and I promise I dont mean it. *yawn* okay thats my rant, i'm off to bed

[Perrin Khalon]

I would like to believe that Yoda knew all along what was going to happen and he knew he had to let it happen to bring "balance". You can see it in his eyes throughout the new trilogy.

[tanzanlinnear]

I know Luke's whole thing was the original story, but to be honest, I've never rated him as much of a Jedi (and him becoming a Jedi Master is only EU) If the films had been made in sequence, the logical thing for Obi-Wan and Yoda to do would have been, rather than go into exile after the twins were born, they should have gone straight back to Coruscant together and opened a can of whoopass on Palpatine and Vader. Anakin couldn't defeat Obi-Wan when they fought, there's no way as Vader that he could have stood upto Ob-Wan in his prime (Only reason he did in ANH is because Obi-Wan was getting on in years and let him win) They could then have both taken on Palpatine and would probably have defeated him.

[Ani-Chay Pinn]

When Luke sat down next to specter-Obi-Wan in ROTJ he said, "I CAN'T kill my own father." He clearly thought that this was the only way to defeat the Sith at the time.

And the problem with Obi-Wan and Yoda going for Palpatine after their first failure is that they'd have to go through 2 million or so clone troopers to get to the Emperor. Everything was still unsettled when they were sneaking back into the Temple -- Palpatine was just then declaring the Empire that the Jedi were now enemies of. That was their one chance to get him off guard. Palpatine and Anakin didn't know that either of them had survived until they showed up. After that they were wanted and lucky to get away at all.

Now that I think about it, what was LUKE thinking when he asked Vader to come with him? His plans seem to have been just as vague as Obi-Wan and Yodas'. Did he really think that the Alliance was going to accept dear 'ol Dad as an ally? It's as if they all couldn't see any plan for defeating the Sith, but they were going to do something about them anyway, one step at a time.

[Starkindler (The Naked Jedi)]

the key seems to lie in Luke's confronting Vader. Anakin's devotion to "family" was well known to Obi and Yoda (the Emperor seems to think it a weakness only he could expolit). Perhaps they were counting on Vader's recognition of Luke and empathizing with his plight to jar him into some sort of action. Vader clearly had his own ideas from the beginning and remained "loyal" to the Emperor out of both pragmatism and expedience. Empy even asked him (almost challenging him) on the point when he reported Luke as being on Endor when the Emperor hadn't felt him that nearby.
Balance.
Anakin/Vader was to be the one who brought balance to the Force. Luke was the means by which the necessary action was evoked from him. The Emperor had let Vader down regarding Padme and so Vader couldn't watch his son die at the Emperor's hands if he could do something about it (the whole point of his powerlessness being how he was seduced to the Dark Side in the first place).

[Leda EmBorr]

In RotS, when Yoda and Obi were discussing what to do with the babies, Yoda says something like: Hidden they must be, until the time is right. So their plan was for Luke to make things right, they just didn't know exactly how.

[Seda Navilli]

adavenport said:

When Luke sat down next to specter-Obi-Wan in ROTJ he said, "I CAN'T kill my own father."

He couldn't kill his father, that is what Obi Wan and Yoda wanted him to do, but Luke wanted to try and bring Anakin back... does that make sense?

adavenport said:

Did he really think that the Alliance was going to accept dear 'ol Dad as an ally?

Rofl, I guess he was just gonna cross that bridge when he came to it ;D

[JediMistressDragon]

I think thats exactly what they expected; they may have seen the battles in RotS, but even after seeing all that Obi Wan says that the Emperor knew that if Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him.<<

Because it would be the offspring who would be the focal point to have Anakin bring the balance back to the lightside. It was his destiny.

they should have gone straight back to Coruscant together and opened a can of whoopass on Palpatine and Vader. Anakin couldn't defeat Obi-Wan when they fought, there's no way as Vader that he could have stood upto Ob-Wan in his prime<<<
As for those who thought Obi-Wan could have destroyed Anakin, well, at the end of Ep III Anakin proved how stronger he was in the Force--remember how everything broke and shook in the room after Palpy told him he killed his wife (the lying, evil, ugly old creep).

There's many holes in prequels and trilogy, esp. with Lucas changing many things. Even the point of why were Luke and Leia seperated to different planets. I mean Luke kept his last name and was placed with Anakin's own step-brother and wife. Think about it. I can'rt see how Vader or Palpy didn't find him. But hey, they're movies I enjoy and yeah, many plot hole and plot points changed, but still enjoy them and will till I die.
JMD

[Schph Gochi]

perrinkhalon said:

I would like to believe that Yoda knew all along what was going to happen and he knew he had to let it happen to bring "balance". You can see it in his eyes throughout the new trilogy.

"difficult to see the future....always in motion it is"

[Ani-Chay Pinn]

Yes, there was no pre-destiny about how everything turned out in the end. Anakin did fulfill his destiny; he brought balance to the Force. But nobody was expecting him to take out the whole Jedi Order in the process. I'm sure he wasn't until he did it. I don't even think that Yoda ever though it would be as bad as it was.

And there is NO plot hole at all in ROTS about Yoda and Obi-Wan not going back to Couroscant to attack Palpatine again. The ONLY reason why they were able to go after him that one time is that Palpatine and Vader didn't know they were alive; they had the element of surprise. Once that was lost, they were wanted Jedi and they were never going to be able to get that close to Palpatine again.

And technically, Mace's and Yoda's attacks on Palpatine were attempted political assassination. Palpatine was the legal head of the government; that's how bad things had slipped before the Jedi ever figured out where the darkness was coming from. And they didn't even figure it out anyway; Palpatine TOLD Anakin who told Mace. That's pretty sad for the Jedi. Palpatine had really done a good job of taking things over; I doubt any Sith before him ever used such patience in their quest for power.

In the end, it was Anakin/Vader who finished the assassination job. The fact that nobody was really sorry to see Palpatine go was just a technicality.

[Xorren Hedrasii]

My thoughts on this are that Yoda and Ben had the common sense to know that Vader could be turned back to the Light. I mean look at this simple fact, Vader had been in that same suit for god know how many years, the whole time NEEDING ALL of the functions to survive. Now here's the connection. Doesnt anyone think with all those years, and Vader was truley fully a Darksider that Sith meditation could heal his body? I make this assumption citing one of the Clone Wars comics, (yes you can hate me for taking the comics seriously) where Asajj takes only three days to heal after a shot to the chest by a long range blaster AND a (usually) fatal slash from Anikin's saber. I dont think that ol' Helmet Head could hold onto enogh rage and anger for long enough to do the whole, tap into the dark side and start healing thing. In my oppinion the Wise Old Frog and Ben seen this and put two and two together. I also think that when they were talking to Luke about the possibility of killing Vader, they were just prepairing Luke for the worst case scenerieo in case they might have had an oversight and Vader was not so easily turned.

[Ani-Chay Pinn]

I don't think that any Jedi or Sith healing could re-grow four missing limbs. Vader lost a lot of living parts and he got knocked down in his Force abilities for it. And I realy don't think that Yoda and Ben had Vader's redemption in mind; they seemed to be set on the once a Sith, always a Sith idea. But they were absolutely sure that Luke had to confront Vader.

I suppose it is possible that they did think that Luke could bring out the Anakin in Vader, but needed Luke to come to that conclusion on his own for it to work. But that sounds unlikely to me, given their backgrounds.

[himiko sabbrawrra]

Vader may have lost some of his abalities. But he was still powerful.