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Post by Ani-Chay Pinn on Sept 28, 2005 20:42:47 GMT -5
I've been thinking.....when Obi-Wan fights Maul, he's just snarling to get at him after he sees Qui-Gon get stabbed. And he went all out against Anakin/Vader after he'd turned Sith.
But Count Dooku was disappointed in Obi-Wan's fighting when he was all Jedi business, but didn't have that seriously personal motive. And he was really just buying time for Luke & company to escape in his last fight with Vader.
So, I suppose there's a little dark side in Obi-Wan. But he doesn't hang onto it after the fight.
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Post by Cha-Al Pesan on Sept 28, 2005 21:03:47 GMT -5
Well I remember reading that when Obi-Wan was fighting Darth Maul he did come close to the darkside. Not moving over but flirted with it as he battled Maul.
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Post by Jedimom/Cor-Al Gelkar on Sept 28, 2005 21:04:30 GMT -5
Persoanlly I think Obi did a great job of keeping his temper during teh fight with Maul. You can see him physically tamp down his anger. First he sees Maul cut down Qui-Gon and Obi's NOOOooooooooo.. then you see him breathing real havily, but then he pauses almost and you can see his head bob down and there he is almost swallowing his anger in an attempt to control it. That is why he won: because he did not fight in anger (and because Maul was over-confident)
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Post by Ani-Chay Pinn on Sept 28, 2005 23:34:39 GMT -5
Yes, Obi-Wan controlled his anger. I don't think he was ever in danger of going Sithy.  He let go of his anger after the fights, so that especially shows that it did not control him. But still, I think it was an ingredient in his more ferocious style when he had something really personal at stake. It makes me wonder what the balancing point is between light and dark sides. I'm sure that the whole letting go of fear-anger-possessions-loved ones thing is part of not going over to the dark side for the Jedi.
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Post by Leda EmBorr on Sept 29, 2005 3:39:36 GMT -5
Well I remember reading that when Obi-Wan was fighting Darth Maul he did come close to the darkside. Not moving over but flirted with it as he battled Maul. Yeah I read that too. He was fighting not only Maul, but the fear/anger/darkside within himself... and he won in all aspects. That's why he was granted the title of Jedi Knight. That was his trial. |
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Post by Jedimom/Cor-Al Gelkar on Sept 29, 2005 7:01:32 GMT -5
Xactly
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Post by kivaanzion on Sept 29, 2005 17:30:00 GMT -5
Here is how I see it: the question can be posed as, "Do Jedi (in general) fight better when they are angry?" In the entire saga Obi-Wan and Luke are the only two Jedi we see successfully defeating Sith Lords (for the time being let's leave out Anakin destroying the Emperor- as we seem to be concentrating on lightsaber combat). Also Anakin may have defeated Dooku- but he gave into hate in doing so. Both Obi-Wan and Luke came dangerously close to succumbing to the Darkside during their respective duals. Ani-Chay is dead on: Obi-Wan couldn't wait for the force field to drop so he could have at Maul- he probably would have strangled him with his bare hands if he had to at that point. The only thing that brought him back from the brink of succumbing to the Darkside is that he nearly lost. Maul got the better of him, knocking him back with a force push. Look at Obi-Wan's face just before that happens: he is seething with anger and aggression. After hanging in the shaft for a few moments he is able to calm himself and come back from the brink of the Darkside- finally defeating Maul (due in-part to Maul's arrogance). Moving on to Luke- the only time he gets the better of Vader is when he temporarily loses control of himself and begins fighting like a madman. What saves Luke from crossing over to the Darkside (ironically) is the Emperor himself. After the Emperor tells him to fulfill his destiny (by giving into the Darkside)- Luke realizes the direction he is headed in and is able to step back from the brink, becoming the epitome of a Jedi by showing compassion and not hate. Quite frankly I think that the Jedi are much more powerful than the Sith- but because the Jedi follow a code of compassion and serenity- they are sometimes overwhelmed by the Sith who follow a code of fury and chaos. It is only when the Jedi "fight fire with fire" that they are able to successfully defeat the Sith. |
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Post by Starkindler (The Naked Jedi) on Sept 29, 2005 20:13:14 GMT -5
then there is also Mace Windu.
but I do concur with the above.
Balance was needed to the Force.
The Sith had teetered one way too far and the Jedi the other way to far.
The Jedi HAD become weaker, for several reasons.
When Luke re-founded the order he set sevral things in motion that should keep it both vital and viable in the future.
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Post by Ani-Chay Pinn on Oct 2, 2005 21:01:43 GMT -5
Actually, I think that "fighting fire with fire" was exactly what was getting the Jedi killed. At least as far as battles and actual fighting were concerned. Palpatine figured out in Gneosis what it would take to overwhelm Jedi in a battle and he just kept it up throughout the Clone Wars. The whole purpose of the Clone Wars was to cement Palpatine's political power and destroy the Jedi.
The "fighting fire with fire" that worked for the Jedi was when Luke got Darth Vader to destroy the emperor. Sidius had cocerced Anakin to his side and Luke counted on being able to do the same thing. And he had the emotional connection to Anakin that worked in the end. NONE of the Old Republic Jedi would have thought of that, not even Yoda..
That little bit of darkness that made Obi-Wan and Luke fight a bit better was good to win a few battles, but it's not what won the war.
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Post by Xana on Oct 7, 2005 9:25:43 GMT -5
"Does Obi-Wan fight better when he's really angry?" I know I do.   |
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Post by Leda EmBorr on Oct 7, 2005 22:36:03 GMT -5
But do you really fight better? If I'm really steamed and angry I fight harder, shout louder, really pour out the emotion. But it's not as controlled.
I think in that scene with Maul, Obi-Wan did lose it for a bit... and he got kicked down a tube! That gave him the opportunity to reflect on the situation and calculate a more effective strategy.
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Post by Xana on Oct 9, 2005 21:06:46 GMT -5
But do you really fight better? If I'm really steamed and angry I fight harder, shout louder, really pour out the emotion. But it's not as controlled. Well........... yeah. That's what I usually need to fight better. The stategies are normally all worked out in my head before hand. And if I have to I can think on my feet. I just need the guts and motivation to carry them out. And if I can control my anger, then I'm good! Besides, anger isn't necessarily a bad thing in my eyes. It can be well justified, controlled., and show you what is right and wrong. If we didn't need fear and anger then we wouldn't be able to feel them. It's how we use them that's important. It's a balance......... Emotions aren't necessarily a downfall or weakness. They can give you strength if you can calm yourself enough to draw on them. I guess it's all about control and channeling any kind of energy. But I see your point, too. I guess it can go both ways. |
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Post by Leda EmBorr on Oct 10, 2005 2:24:44 GMT -5
"If we didn't need fear and anger then we wouldn't be able to feel them. It's how we use them that's important."Well you got me there! So true!
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Post by Starkindler (The Naked Jedi) on Oct 10, 2005 19:53:03 GMT -5
Anger and Temper are at issue here I think.
You can become murderously angry and still keep a clear head and be able to think.
You can become enraged by losing your temper altogether and be out manuvered and out thought by a carrot.
ANger can help a trained fighter by pushing him/her to the edge of their ability.
Loss of temper will hinder that same ability.
Think of a sword that has lost it's temper. it looks just as dangerous, and is still sharp, but can be easily shattered and broken.
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Post by tanzanlinnear on Oct 20, 2005 13:16:49 GMT -5
A bit late, but here's my .2c... It makes me wonder what the balancing point is between light and dark sides.
To me, the balancing point is personal pleasure. If someone is actually taking pleasure in being able to physically dominate someone, then that is indeed skirting with the Dark Side, and something I've experienced myself when I was younger, before I learned to master my temper. However, if someone is taking pleasure from the challenge of the contest, then that is okay, because it is the thing itself that they are enjoying, not their own prowess. |
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He let go of his anger after the fights, so that especially shows that it did not control him. But still, I think it was an ingredient in his more ferocious style when he had something really personal at stake. It makes me wonder what the balancing point is between light and dark sides. I'm sure that the whole letting go of fear-anger-possessions-loved ones thing is part of not going over to the dark side for the Jedi.
