Movie Accurate Jedi Belt - a discussion

[Saberbelt]

Cross posted from The RPF......

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This is all hypothetical, so please take it as such.

Lets say that a guy has been studying pics for years, making belts, and after all these years it hit him like a ton of bricks, the revelation of how to make the belt right - no Velcro, no snaps, no rivets holding the belt closed; all pressure fit like the movie with the front buckle holding the whole thing together and closed.

Now, lets say this guy made a prototype to see if this idea would work, and it did, worked like a charm and after wearing the prototype for hours, he realized he was right and that there is no doubt what-so-ever that this is how they did it for the movies.

The real question comes up, what does the guy do? Make the belt for himself and some close friends but keep it a "trade secret" or make it available for the world to see and own?

This is all hypothetical mind you......

Dave

[AMP]

OH! You definitely need to share that with us. But I suspect I may already know based on all previous information about the belts.
How did you control the small belt slippage issue?

[JediKai]

I think Ani-Chay Pinn has a belt made this way already. She can correct me if I'm wrong. I've been thinking about adapting her method.

However, on the topic of the hypothetical question......

I've always immediately shared what I know about making things. That's my esthetic from other costuming groups. I feel a little resentful of those people who won't even share a hint of how they make an item.

Why wouldn't someone share what s/he's discovered? To make money on it? To have the only truly screen accurate model? However, once it's worn in public, others will figure out how it's made and someone will share the technique. So why not express a generous spirit and share it?

There will always be people who will pay the originator to make belts, as many don't think they have the skill or time or can't do it as well as the designer. Though many of us make our own belts, there are plenty of people who buy belts from Dave!

[Saberbelt]

amp said:

OH! You definitely need to share that with us. But I suspect I may already know based on all previous information about the belts.
How did you control the small belt slippage issue?

Remember, this is all theory and hypothetical......but to answer your question in a general sense, you can control slippage and such on any belt by using a tight belt keeper, once the leather is folded and in a tight keeper it shouldn't move

Some good points of view being brought up both here and on the RPF, interesting reads for sure; as Old Obi Wan once said "Many of the truths we cling too depend greatly on our own point of view". I posted this on the Rebel Legion as well, I am interested to hear what other views are out there

Dave

[Ani-Chay Pinn]

saberbelt said:

The real question comes up, what does the guy do? Make the belt for himself and some close friends but keep it a "trade secret" or make it available for the world to see and own?

I would post how it works. No particular reason for keeping it secret. If the guy is selling the belts, I don't think sharing how they're made would affect that. Most people buy belts because they don't have the tools or inclination or desire to make their own.

And Kai is right. My Jedi belts are basically two belts. The wide 'base' belt with the studs on it has a regular flat buckle in back. The narrower belt threads between the studs and keeps everything tight. To save time, I put the belt together with the pouches and the buckles undone and slide the whole thing over my head and then buckle it.

[Saberbelt]

Let me try to explain, and I have for a fact seen the movie belts and have pictures that clearly show there are no snaps and no velcro on the belt. Try to follow me and I will explain

You have to think of the belt itself as 2 belts. The 1st being the main belt that simply wraps around you and overlaps in the back through a large belt keeper. So the loop actually serves 2 purposes since it should be fairly tight; 1 is to hold the 2 halves of the belt in line and 2 is to hide the 'end' of the 1 piece of leather. Have you ever wondered why there are 4 rivets on Obi's loop? It actually holds the loop at the 1 end of the main belt but it also serves as a 'track' so to speak for the accent belt to follow while going along the back of the body. The 2nd belt is the accent belt which functions just like a pants belt except that there are 2 adjustment points, 1 on either side of the buckle. Have you ever noticed that there is a ton of leather going behind the accent belt from the buckle to, in some pictures I have seen and seen in person (Frankin Institute), beyond the 1st set of rivets? That is what gives you your adjustment for waist size. If done right, a belt can handle about 3 to 4 inches either way from the size it is made for; so lets take 34" as an example, that belt in theory can handle a waist size from 31" to 37" roughly. Now the question is how to keep the belt from slipping at the buckle; that answer is easy, use a tight belt keeper and the leather, again in theory, will not move.

So, following the 2 belt rule you get a very thin laying belt in the back and a very tight fitting belt, just like the movies.

I can already see the smoke so let me explain further, and this is the 1st confirmation, I did it. I wore the belt for 3 hours in raw leather form, which is softer than dyed leather, while doing a ton of activity (sitting, standing, walking, bending, laying down, rolling on the floor....), it never loosened up at all. I dyed the belt and did it again, same thing. The pressure of the accent belt holding everything closed coupled with a quality metal buckle is the key, this thing is rock solid and just plain works. After doing this I can say, beyond a shadow of a doubt, this is exactly how they did it for the movies.

I don't make wild claims, I never have, this is one time where I will say I am 100% confident that I have done it right. I can see the skeptics now saying 'prove it', well, ok:


Close Ups

I know that I need to take better pics and that I need a better movie showing how it works, those were taken at midnight the other night. The movie is just plain too dark and needs to be re-shot. Yes, I know the buckle is on backwards, I had a brain fart when putting it together, I will fix that once I make it for the site. Yes, 2nd confirmation, I am going to make these available starting this weekend.

You heard it here, I did it and I want everyone to have one. The reason I posted this thread was not to generate interest or be greedy, I needed to 'talk' out if I really wanted to make this commitment again. I have the fear in the back of my mind that I might make the mistake of letting this hobby business become more than a hobby again, so that was my concern.

Feel free to discuss, I will be able to take pics tomorrow in the daylight, so they should be better and I will try to take some with the belt open as well as closed.

Dave

[Starkindler (The Naked Jedi)]

Very nice !!
It would definitely work with your description.

New challenge...
Can an existing belt be "retro-fitted" with this method?

[Saberbelt]

I doubt it could be retrofitted, only because of the velcro on the belt and the back cover needing to be upgraded as well. I am sure someone could figure it out, but that won't be me. It might be better in the long rung, from frustrations sake, to just get a new belt

Dave

[Ani-Chay Pinn]

That is intriguing.

If you can, take pictures of the belts disassembled.

It looks like you if you took it apart, you would have:

- one wide belt with the belt-keeper loop attached at the end.
- one narrow belt with the two ends of the buckle on both ends, the belt looped through the buckled ends and held in place by belt keepers.

I actually use belt keepers on one of my belts for adjustment of the narrow belt. I have other buckle types with peg closures on other narrow belts.

I really like the belt keeper attached to the wide belt end. Very cool and efficient.

I never really noticed if Obi-Wan had rivets at all on the back of his belt keeper. Do other Jedi have them?

Hmmmmmm, this might be worth making another belt for, to try out.

[Saberbelt]

adavenport said:

That is intriguing.

If you can, take pictures of the belts disassembled.

It looks like you if you took it apart, you would have:

- one wide belt with the belt-keeper loop attached at the end.
- one narrow belt with the two ends of the buckle on both ends, the belt looped through the buckled ends and held in place by belt keepers.

I actually use belt keepers on one of my belts for adjustment of the narrow belt. I have other buckle types with peg closures on other narrow belts.

I really like the belt keeper attached to the wide belt end. Very cool and efficient.

I never really noticed if Obi-Wan had rivets at all on the back of his belt keeper. Do other Jedi have them?

Hmmmmmm, this might be worth making another belt for, to try out.

You pretty much have it

I have seen them on others, but Obi is the most notable

Dave

[Saberbelt]

oh, 1 more thought on the retrofit, you would need a new 1 piece accent belt as well, so that adds to the complication....

anyways - just finished updating these to my site, they are now available Here. I am adding a thread in the selling area as well

Today is just too dark and rainy to take new pics, so that will have to wait a few days.

Dave

[JediKai]

Very nice!

[Saberbelt]

thanks

Dave

[Ani-Chay Pinn]

Interesting note: if you look at the Disney Jedi Costumes, one picture I took clearly shows that there are no rivets in the back piece of the Jedi belt. So, I wonder how the Disney belts are made?

[JediKai]

I think it is also obvious there is no buckle in the back.

I'm nearly finished making a new belt with this construction technique. I need a different piece of leather strap for the overbelt. The one I have is too light weight and the keepers don't keep it tight enough.