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Post by Jade1 on Sept 9, 2002 0:52:10 GMT -5
Ok Here is some in depth stuff I just want to get opinions on stuff that some of the masters have said and various interpitations. Like YODA " Do or do not their is no try" well someone might argue yeah there is try. Ah the cave in TESB Yoda says to luke just as he goes into the cave," youre wepons you will not need them." Well Luke takes um any way. Someone tells me this shows signs of insucurity and he dosen't trust the force yet. So No getting mad at one another and everyone has diffrent perspectives so hopefully I didn't start anything agin I seem to do that. I just want to see what fellow Jedi think it's a phlosopy thing. anyone else have any curiositys on quotes bounce em aroud. I enjoy this.
PS any one reading Traitor here? If so post on the Book thread I'm curious as to what you think and would enjoy discussing the book.
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Post by FlashlightReveries on Sept 9, 2002 1:05:26 GMT -5
[glow=navy,2,300]It did seem like Yoda's wisdom didn't provide too much clarity. But you have to think in the spirit of things.
Like this. Say someone tells you to run a 5 minute mile. You'll first think "Wow, that's fast, I'll never do that." (anti-Jedi) or "Hmm, that's really hard, but I'll try my best" (padawan) or finally, the mindset Yoda was trying to get accross, "That's hard but I'm going to do it." And maybe if you get 5:05 on it, then you can truly say you tried your hardest. If you entered it with the original idea of trying your hardest, you'd probably get a 6:10, and say the same thing. But I hate running, that's why they invented vehicles; flying and otherwise.
The cave scene is very controversial and to help understand it, I would say the body of the Luke-faced Vader should have also disappeared after the face exploded. Just to show the cave as a reflection of the dark side and what it creates. Not as a clone-building device. I'm getting ahead of even myself so I'll stop.[/glow]
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Schph Gochi
Message Board Member
"traveling through hyperspace ain't like dustin' crops boy"
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Post by Schph Gochi on Sept 9, 2002 6:07:23 GMT -5
that is a good question.....
hmmmm....
as far as the book "Traitor"...I have it, but have not read it ....I stopped reading the NJO at Star By Star as I am waiting for it to come out in paperback...then I will resume the series...
BTW Star By Star is due out in paperback next month.
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Eqin Ilis
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Rebel through and through
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Post by Eqin Ilis on Sept 9, 2002 10:53:16 GMT -5
Now you've done it! LOL That quote is the basis of half my argumen- I mean, debates. ;D
"Do or do not, there is no try." Flash (Is it ok if I call you that?) said something close to what I think. You can try and fail, but when you give up before you *really* tried, you've already beat yourself. The way Luke said, "I'll try" told us (the audience) that he really didn't think he could do it. If he'd said it more confidently, it would have sounded like he was trying to be humble, not giving up.
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Post by Jade1 on Sept 9, 2002 16:09:03 GMT -5
Star by Star is due out next month in paperback some advice. Take youre time savor every word and get tissue. I really loved this one I know alot of people hate the EU but i really liked this one alot.
Insights are most well thought of here I'm enjoying readin all the input. It is refreshing Flash in alot of things youve posted I don't get but explaining is helpful we all see difrently and have been raised diffrent and I really enjoy hearing the interpatations. It's kinda like obi-one says " From a certian point of view." Its all how you look at it. Is the glass half full or half empty?
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Post by Jauhzmynn Enz on Sept 9, 2002 16:20:12 GMT -5
[glow=blue,2,300]I always thought in that scene Yoda was saying a tlast 2 things. 1. to show Luke that his worst enemy wasn't Darth Vader but HIMSELF. How he thinks. If he goes into a battle thinking he won't succeed, he's already lost. Pride, arrogance, self sufficancy apart from God foolish and selfdefeating. 2, that the Darkside is constantly there tempting Luke to wuss out of walking the straight, narrow Light way.
Jauhzmynn [/glow]
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Post by Ryss Fal-Orran on Sept 9, 2002 19:38:59 GMT -5
Philosophy...my weak point...*grin*
Anyways...my view on "do, or do not; there is no try": Ultimately, you either fail in what you are doing, or you succeed. You do it, or you do not do it. I'm probably taking this very literally....but ultimately, "try" is just an in-between state.
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Post by Jade1 on Sept 9, 2002 23:16:16 GMT -5
Ryss Yeah sometimes it's better to look at it just as it is. I always get accused of way over analyzing stuff.
Jauhzmynn I really like that I never tought about it that way makes great sense and I never really got that! Any one else have any good quotes thy are curious about from SW?
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Eqin Ilis
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Rebel through and through
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Post by Eqin Ilis on Sept 10, 2002 11:52:35 GMT -5
But if you do your best to get to a goal (absolute best, as in: you haven't half given up) and you don't reach it, then you didn't really fail. I mean, you _really_tried_. The only failure is failure to try. So you can do it, you can not do it, and you can try. But if you only half try, then it wouldn't count, and Luke had already given up. I don't know, I'm probably taking this too far. ::shrugs::
How about the quote, "Feel, don't think." I've heard some people that think that means you're not supposed to go to school/ think about the consequences of doing something.
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Post by FlashlightReveries on Sept 10, 2002 14:06:51 GMT -5
[glow=navy,2,300]Equin, you've made some very good points.
And I guess you all can call me Flash since, it's in my name but [/glow]I would be preferred to be called the Elder for now. Just for now. But either's fine.
"Feel, don't think", I believe, is a reference to a different situation. When a Jedi meditates or is in battle or even anywhere else almost, you should be feeling things through the force and not trying to think everything out. You can get a computer to do that. Just a large group of variables that you'd just have to plug in to get a result.
And here's why school's VERY important. Most kids/teens think that solving inequalities with route 4 variables is the hardest and most unuseful thing they would ever be tested on. Well, they're not really trying to get you to remember the exact number because you'll do it again, they're trying to build your problem solving skills. It takes a process to turn x^4 + 5xy -24y^3 = 18xy -3y^3 + 2x^4, into x=, y=. And that process is what they want you to learn. Not just with your algebra, but in all things you do. And wisdom is being able to skip some of those steps in the problem, which will let you do the same in the real world. So you combine this wisdom that you learned in school with the feelings you get through the force, and OF COURSE you're going to figure out that Jango Fett has been hired to kill Padme!
Wow, that was a lot. Comment if I confused anybody. The glass is half full.
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Schph Gochi
Message Board Member
"traveling through hyperspace ain't like dustin' crops boy"
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Post by Schph Gochi on Sept 10, 2002 16:43:29 GMT -5
.....busy attaching butterfly net to top of head to catch all the things going over it......
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Post by FlashlightReveries on Sept 10, 2002 16:47:48 GMT -5
[glow=navy,2,300]LOL, sorry about that, Master Gochi. Oh and for the record, if you haven't already pointed this out, the name thing you used was later confirmed to be for Star Wars characters in general, not for Jedi. The Jedi one is in the works now by somebody. But I still like the name.[/glow]
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Socean
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Post by Socean on Oct 13, 2002 14:57:15 GMT -5
Ok i seems that everyone has forgot bout this thread but i think its neat so i'm gonna post on it anyways.
You all gave me a very lot to think about but heres my views on things:
Do our do not, there is no try- i believe that yoda is right ,there is no try, now before anyone goes what? let me explain, if you are to move a boulder , and you go and try to move it by yourself and you dont suceed that is the "do not", you didn't not move the rock. and if you go and figure a way to move it and you move it that is the do, now some off you will argue 'what if you didn't even try and move the rock?' i believe there are stages of do not and that is the lowest one. so in a way i agree with Ryss. now i got you really confused don't i? well i love that quote its one of my fav.
the cave sene- cant help you there, that whole sene is one big puzzle to me!
Feel, don't think- is also a fav. i believe there is a time to use that and a time not to, wisdom is what shows you the difference.
ps great to hear all the points off view but how bout this one: in ROTJ luke and ob1 are talking about 'a certain point of view' and truth, so i ask the question what is truth? (i have an opinion on this but i'll wait and see what everyone else thinks.)
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Socean
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Post by Socean on Oct 13, 2002 15:07:24 GMT -5
ok another way to explain Do or do not, there is no try: when you play a soccer game you either win, lose, or tie. winning is 'do' losing is 'do not' and tieing is 'do not' because you did not win. ok now your probably even more confused maybe i should just ssshhh... i'm not very good at explaining stuff. i do love to debate though.
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Post by Xana on Oct 13, 2002 19:12:06 GMT -5
The truth is simply the truth. The question is, the truth about what? ;D
My take on the cave scene-- Yoda said that what was in the cave was only what Luke brought with him. The purpose of the cave, being strong in the Dark Side, was to bring Luke's own Dark Side to the forefront so he could learn about himself and deal with it. You can't conquer the Dark Side in the universe if you don't acknowledge and have control of your own Dark Side. Luke saw himself in Vader and learned this lesson. He also drew his saber first, to attack Vader, which is a no no. I think it is akin to a vision quest that the Native Americans go on-- but I don't know too much about that.
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