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Post by Leda EmBorr on May 23, 2004 14:05:18 GMT -5
Ok, SO....
Xana and I were watching AotC last night frame by frame and we noticed a little blunder in the Geonosian hangar scene during the lightsaber fight between Anakin and Dooku.
It seems that the saber that Obi-Wan reaches for and calls with Force is not the same saber that he tosses through the air to Anakin. In fact the one that Anakin catches seems to be Obi-Wan's lightsaber! Hmmm, anyone else pick this up?
Then, when Anakin catches it with his left hand and ignites it, we assume that it is blue because the other one he's already holding in his right hand is green.
Ok... so then in the next frame, suddenly the green one is in his left hand and the blue one is in his right, and that's how the fight goes on. Maybe we could imagine that he quickly shuffled them between hands...
BUT... then we see that he is still holding Obi-Wan's lightsaber in his left hand... and the blade is now green.
Likewise, the one that Anakin had with the green blade is still the same saber hilt, but the blade color has changed to blue!
Then, when Dooku hits it and cuts it in half, it is the same one that Obi-Wan had reached for that we see land, smoking in pieces on the hangar floor.
Also, if we go back a few frames to Obi-Wan and Dooku fighting, we notice that Obi-Wan is using the borrowed saber during most of the duel except it looks like he's using his own lightsaber during the popular freeze frame where he's struggling against Dooku's blade. I thought that the vertical bit of metal in the design might be a light reflection, but I don't think so.
Hmmm... did they think that we geeks wouldn't notice this? Or more like... would they care if we did?
;D
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Schph Gochi
Message Board Member
"traveling through hyperspace ain't like dustin' crops boy"
Posts: 9,278
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Post by Schph Gochi on May 25, 2004 7:03:13 GMT -5
wow!  you watched frame by frame? how long does something like that take? The only thing I watched in slow-mo was the arena battle on Geonosis...so I could see every movement made by the Jedi.... |
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Post by Xana on May 25, 2004 20:40:54 GMT -5
Dunno, but I imagine a while. lol! We had a "capture" session........... as we are now calling it.  We watched the movie in slow mo and "froze" the scenes we wanted........ mostly of Jedi......... ok, Obi-Wan........... and saved them. You can learn how to twirl a saber pretty well like that! It's a very bad program......... you can stay up all night watching it like that.............  |
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Post by Leda EmBorr on Jun 3, 2004 16:21:00 GMT -5
Yeah... we didn't watch the whole movie... just certain parts....  |
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Post by Sauron Varen on Jun 3, 2004 16:32:12 GMT -5
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Post by Leda EmBorr on Jun 6, 2004 2:23:26 GMT -5
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Post by Xana on Jun 6, 2004 18:13:51 GMT -5
OMG!! You posted it fram by frame?!! That is so cool! I love the site, Leda! And, see? We're not the only geeks who watch the movies frame by frame...........  |
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Post by mooglar (Malim Vincible) on Dec 10, 2004 10:43:11 GMT -5
I know this is an old topic, but just because I like to listen to myself type...
On film sets there is actually a person responsible for continuity, that is, making sure that the cuts on someone's face look the same from scene to scene and day to day, or, in this case, making sure that the lightsaber Ben tosses to Anakin is the same lightsaber Anakin catches. And so on.
My friend Blake used to be one of these people. I will relate a bit of his experience as he told me.
First thing is, that the continuity person is by far not the most important person on the set. So, the continuity person is generally feverishly trying to keep track of hundreds of details while shooting progresses more or less without regard to him or her. Thus, lots of things get missed as the harried continuity person scrambles to keep up.
When the continuity person notices something, it's actually up to the director to decide what to do. Sometimes, if something is noticed before a shot and easily correctible, it may be fixed, but sometimes when the director is worried about "losing the light" or something, filming will just continue because the continuity error isn't as important as the money it will cost to shoot a scene later instead of then. If the error is after the scene is shot, the director has to decide if the error is important enough to justify the cost of re-shooting or to justify not using a take that the director is really happy with. Often, it is decided that the error is less important.
Now, in this case, I suspect that something else probably happened: I think we've all seen those shots of Dooku holding two lightsabers, one red, one blue, which were not seen in the film. I rather suspect that the blue saber is Obi-Wan's. After all, Dooku is the one who took Obi-Wan's saber away. I think that the whole scene was different in shooting and at some point Obi-Wan threw his normal saber to Anakin, thus explaining how Obi-Wan's saber got in the scene at all. That's a pretty big continuity error that I think would have been caught otherwise. Someone would have noticed, I would think, if Obi-Wan's saber got into the scene if it wasn't supposed to be there at all.
Lucas is famous for completely reediting scenes into something completely different than what was shot. This causes some strange things to appear on screen, such as when Bultar Swan activates her lightsaber in the arena and then sticks out her palm as if doing a force push when nothing is attacking her. Or when Dooku finishes shooting lightning at Obi-Wan and then clearly reaches for his lightsaber despite the fact that he doesn't draw it then.
So, when Lucas reedited the scene, he edited Obi-Wan's lightsaber out, and used the shot of Anakin catching Obi-Wan's saber for Anakin catching Obi-Wan's replacement saber. I'm not even sure Anakin was catching the saber originally... it looks a bit like he was using the force.
In such a case, Lucas had to weigh what he wanted the scene to be and what it would cost to do reshoots with Hayden Christensen against how much the audience is likely to notice. Frankly, I must admit, I never noticed, and I notice continuity errors like a pro. But it's a simple cost/benefit ratio with these kinds of things: Is it worth the cost to do a reshoot? In this case, no.
Alternately, he was reediting this stuff too late in the process and had already done all the reshoots he had alloted. Even Lucas doesn't have infinite money to call actors back, plus, they are only committed to come back so many times and not when they are doing something else. Reshoots may not have been possible, even had Lucas wanted to do them.
But I have no explanation for the sabers switching color. Admittedly, I didn't notice that either, but that's a pretty stupid error to make, especially because it's not an onset error but an error that happened in post productions with the graphics team. How no one noticed and corrected it I can't imagine. I can't even explain it through reediting, because, in the original scene, Obi-Wan's saber should have been blue, but when it switches Obi-Wan's hilt suddenly has a green blade. Perhaps the two scenes were done at different times and by the time they put them together and noticed the saber switch, it was too late to fix. I dunno.
Just my two cents!
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Mon-Jas Charan
Message Board Member
"Poena Vigoratus. Pullus cavo vix. Palma , est eternus"
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Post by Mon-Jas Charan on Dec 10, 2004 12:41:28 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]If you step frame throught the battle in ESB, just before Luke's hand is cut off, you will see he is holding a Darth Vader Sabre, not the one Ben gave him ... Most likely the "blade" broke during the filming and they just used another to complete the shot.
Some of my favorite continunity errors are in You've Got Mail where Tom Hanks puts the olive in the same glass twice. In White Christmas, Vera Allen puts the coffee pot on the warmer twice.
Since most movies are shot with one camera, the action is repeated over for each camera angle, the timing and cuts are often off just alittle, and most movie goers never see the misses.
Lucas often reverses a shot on the final print, so the actors move things from hand to hand when asked, but the GL changes his mind. Look a Obi-Wans brade in TPM when Qui-Gon is leaving to get Anikin. It is on the wrong side.
[/glow]
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Post by Leda EmBorr on Dec 10, 2004 23:48:22 GMT -5
Ok... now I'm convinced that those artists over at ILM are really just messing with us... like glueing a quarter to the floor in the grocery store and then watching to see how many people try to pick it up.! After spending last Sunday rotoscoping hundreds of frames for Andrew's film for school I realize the necessity of making choices like that... to re-shoot or not, etc... He taped the actors in one day and then decided to change scenes around. Looks pretty cool though. It was a 30 second commercial for his history class, advertising the model T Ford. |
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Post by firebrand on Jul 7, 2005 22:02:09 GMT -5
Another switcheroo occurs in ROTS.
I could be wrong about this but find as many pictures as you can and when you get the DVD pause it and examine the mement when Anakin starts choking Obi and pushing him over backwards. obi is holding Anakin's saber and Ani is holding Obis. ALSO at one point Obi is holding the lower half of Anakins saber (Black grips) and the upper part of his! This must be due to superimposing CGI images over stunt blades. It has to be.
But if WE notice, why not ILM?
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Post by Seda Navilli on Jul 8, 2005 0:23:17 GMT -5
Yeah, I noticed that one ^^ Another one is in TPM, when obi wan jumps out of the pit during the final duel against darth maul and picks up qui gon's saber, it flies into his left hand, then as he flies over and strikes Maul, it is in his right hand |
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Post by lazlototh on Jul 8, 2005 23:53:17 GMT -5
Another switcheroo occurs in ROTS. I could be wrong about this but find as many pictures as you can and when you get the DVD pause it and examine the mement when Anakin starts choking Obi and pushing him over backwards. obi is holding Anakin's saber and Ani is holding Obis. ALSO at one point Obi is holding the lower half of Anakins saber (Black grips) and the upper part of his! This must be due to superimposing CGI images over stunt blades. It has to be. But if WE notice, why not ILM? I think I saw that too - it's driving me nuts! |
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Post by Leda EmBorr on Jul 9, 2005 3:16:33 GMT -5
yes I've seen that... it's quite evident in pictures as well, they use that screen shot for things like t-shirts and other promos.
I'm starting to think they did it on purpose! lol!! Maybe they jump cut the scene or something because we don't see Anakin lose his saber at any point and we know he does because he calls it back with the force. Perhaps that was edited out.
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Post by lazlototh on Jul 10, 2005 18:35:12 GMT -5
I went for #8 yesterday and I watched for it in that scene - it is OBVIOUS once you look for it - I nearly groaned...
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We watched the movie in slow mo and "froze" the scenes we wanted........ mostly of Jedi......... ok, Obi-Wan........... and saved them. You can learn how to twirl a saber pretty well like that!
