Shoulder Pleat at Waistline (2 pc Tunic)

[Kryy Jacobi]

Hi Ya'll -- It's lunchtime and I have a quick question.

Now that my inner tunic is mostly finished (except final decision on "fasteners"), I want to start on a pattern/muslin for the outer tunic (woman's, 2 piece style). The long thread on this topic was VERY helpful.

But I started thinking/analyzing (dangerous I know... ) and wondered what to do about the shoulder pleat at the bottom where it goes into the waist, both front and back. I assume it's sewn down (into the waist) in the front and then the skirt has a matching pleat that resumes from the waist. (Otherwise it would "flow" like an A-line.) Is there any advice to keep it from riding up? (I'm tall, but a bit short-waisted.)

Also, in the back, since the skirt is sort of a circle, is the pleat added or left off?

Thanks for your expert help and experience!

Kryy

[Leda EmBorr]

Shoulder pleat at the waist? I don't follow... Got a pic or drawing of what you're thinking of?

I used to do pleats at the back of the tunic at the waist before I started using the circle skirt pattern.

[Kryy Jacobi]

Sorry, I don't think I explained very well. And of course, I haven't made an outer tunic yet, so it may turn out to be a non-issue when I actually try to make a pattern/muslin and fold and pin and rip out and stuff. (Thought I'd try to use parts of some commercial patterns -- altered a bit -- along with the ideas ya'll exchanged on the long thread.)

What I mean is ... the extra fabric that tucks under at the shoulder..... it's still extra fabric folding under (theoretically) at the front and back of the garment as it moves down toward the waist and into the waist seam. I know a woman's bust may take up some (or a lot) of that at the front, but not at the back.

So I guess I'm asking how to and how much to ease that extra fabric (from the shoulder tuck) into the waist and then if the fold continues into the skirt. (And will the tuck be sewn in at the waist, at least on the upper part if not the skirt?)

This would be a non-issue on the straight pattern or even the a-line because the fold would just fall out as it goes toward the hem. I'm just not sure what to expect with a waist seam. It may be a non-issue on that as well. (??)

Sorry to be confusing -- does that make any more sense?

[Kryy Jacobi]

Maybe the sides of the "bodice" part taper in sharply enough from arm to waist that the tuck has disappeared by the time it gets to the waist?

Of course, I imagine that would do interesting things to the "straight of grain"....

I am looking through my visual guides, making of AOTC ("Mythmaking"), and "Dressing a Galaxy" and can't quite figure it out.

Part of this is that I'm trying to put in a bit of a waist -- mine has been MIA for the past few months.

[Ani-Chay Pinn]

I think I understand your question about the extra fabric of the shoulder tucks......

On my tunic, I only tack down the shoulder tuck at the shoulder. I do not put in any extra folds in the body of the tunic. The wrap around front of the tunic tends to flatten out the extra fabric and it is held in place by the obi and partially covered by the tabards.

Also, the tunic can be made with a waist seam, where the top of the tunic is a simple wrap around, and the bottom is like a circle skirt and the waist is more fitted to the body. This is more work to do and you have to work out your own pattern. The circle skirt gives the tunic extra motion and that appears to be the way the tunics in the movies were made, with the waist seam.

I have tried both A-line and circle skirt tunic, and the A-line is much easier to make and looks about as good as the circle skirt.

The one thing to avoid is having straight sides on a tunic; that looks too much like a karate gi. The Jedi tunic does flare out at the hem.

[Leda EmBorr]

My tunics has a 5 inch shoulder tuck..,. more than what most people do, and I haven't had to do any thing with the extra fabric at the waist. But I made my pattern, I didn't use a store bought one.

My suggestion is to see what happens when you do a shoulder tuck. Try it on with the belt, and then if you feel you need to eliminate some of the fabric around the waist, then put a couple of gathers around the waist, at the back of the tunic, to give it more of a defined shape.

But definitely try it on with your Jedi belt, if you have one, or with any belt. The fit with vs. without a belt is completely different!

[Kryy Jacobi]

These are really good suggestions!

I found some $1/yard beige/white 1/4" gingham at Walmart -- nearly a whole bolt -- and I think I'm going to be doing a lot of trial patterns with it. (I like using the grid for measuring complicated stuff.)

I may try 2 different styles of "front" -- one with seam and one without (A-line) and do a skirt for the back. The wrap around would certainly help take up the extra fabric, and I agree about the difference w/belt and without.

There is a picture in "Mythmaking" (making of AOTC) of a male and female Jedi in front of the bluescreen -- extras for the Arena scene -- and I like her skirt style.

Tonight I'm going to finish my undertunic, with suggestions from Ani, so I can make a more serious effort on the pattern. More feedback/questions coming...

Thanks so much for the help!!

Kryy

[Nova Darklighter]

I usually ease out the extra fabric on the bodice (top) 1/2 of my tunics with basic darts, they don't show, they are under the tabbards. From waist up, sort of do a sinple wrap over top, and bias band trim, from waist down either a circle type or an a-line cut to fit the waist seam without gathers, tho' I have done at least 2 with fairly gathered or tucked (sort of pleated, but not pressed) into the seam. I usually don't do an extremely wide tuck, about a 1 1/2 inch depth, it does give a broader shoulder look to narrower, or slouched or round shoulders, can also balence a wider lower torso. I usually try not to add width to my shoulders, so I don't do wide tucks, and most often do none, tho' I did them on my latest and they work well.

As for fasteners, I use snaps in several sizes for most everything except velcro on belt, or what are called whopper popper snaps, large and very heavy duty. Velcro can snag up the fabric in the wash, or in the drawer of left unclosed.

[Kryy Jacobi]

Hmmmm.... darts. Nova, do you just do the side darts, or do you have any coming up from the waist as well?

I thought I was going to be making a lot of trial and error patterns, and now I'm sure of it!!

And today, I had another thought.... I see all of the versions and metamorphosis of costumes on the "Jedi Beginnings" and other threads, and the trial and error and tweaking of the process....

So... I'm wondering if it might be best for me to stop and make a one-piece tunic first go-around, and then proceed with a two-piece after I wear the first one, get to know how it "works" and moves and where it rides up, etc., so I can place the waist seam more accurately in a two-piece.

The perfectionist in me wants a PERFECT tunic the first time (and TOMORROW, mind you ), but even trying lots of muslins and techniques won't let me actually wear and get the "feel" of the tunic. Plus, even though I'm a perfectionist, my skills are not to that level.

So I'm asking for counsel from the expert seamstresses and those who have made more than one -- am I biting off more than I can chew doing a two-piece tunic the first time? Or do you think I should go for it?

I did want a waist but I guess I can just cinch up that belt instead! ;D

[Kryy Jacobi]

New thought/idea -- try Ani Pinn's A-line (thanks for doing the tutorial, Ani!) and stitch down a tiny bit of a tuck at front waist on each side. It's sort of like my original question about what to do with the shoulder tuck fabric.

Stay tuned.....

[Kryy Jacobi]

P.S. I really appreciate everyone's help and advice and patience -- this tunic is more of a struggle than I expected.

I suppose it's because I know what I want, but don't know if I can execute -- and I'm the perfectionist to boot.

I really do appreciate the help.

Kryy

[Ani-Chay Pinn]

So, glad you found the pattern helpful! Alas, I don't have a lot....um....upstairs, so I generally don't bother with darts for anything as loose fitting as a Jedi tunic. the tuck tacked down at the waist sounds like an excellent and easy compromise for putting in darts. Someday, I will update my tutorials, and I'll put that in.

Side darts, I think, would work best for a two-piece tunic, which is much better suited for fitting the tunic to the wearer's body. However, the two-piece tunic is more work and you have to make your own pattern for it. Whether you go with a one-piece body or a two-piece really depends on your sewing experience and how much sewing time you want to put into. Both, I think, make nice looking Jedi tunics.

kryyjacobi said:

New thought/idea -- try Ani Pinn's A-line (thanks for doing the tutorial, Ani!) and stitch down a tiny bit of a tuck at front waist on each side. It's sort of like my original question about what to do with the shoulder tuck fabric.

[Nova Darklighter]

If you are curvy, than the bodice w skirt style works best and looks most flattering, I did my 1st as an A-line and never wore it out of the house.
My pattern is shaped like Leda's but, has darts at the waist in back on either side of the center back and also in front sometimes if very busty.

[Kryy Jacobi]

Ani and Nova,

Those are more good tips -- I'm glad to know about the "curvy" -- I am more so than I should be, b/c I need to lose about 10 pounds, but that's another story...

I had an "aha" over the W/E -- went to the Simplicity sale at JoAnn's and bought 2 copies of the 5840 (b/c it has the rounded sleeve/shoulder) and a couple of different styles of skirts w/no waist. So instead of dropping $50 on patterns, I only dropped $10, and now I am going to cut them up and mark and add graph paper, etc., mix and match, slice and dice, and see what I can work out. Then I'll proceed to a muslin....

I'm doing a longer tunic like Mace's, although not quite as long as his.

Here's the aha -- I realized I didn't need to stick with a "costume" pattern, but should look at regular clothing, which is generally better constructed anyway. And using pattern parts would give me some additional "tools" instead of trying to make the pattern myself. Not spending as much on patterns made me worry less about maybe "messing them up". I'd just try again.

BTW, there is a neat kimono pattern in the outerwear/tops section (the one with the matching "purse" -- Jedi pouches? -- shades of "Space Balls" and Princess Lala's luggage....) But, seriously, I think it could be adapted to a nice woman's tunic.

Will keep ya'll posted!

[Kryy Jacobi]

A bit of a rabbit trail, but here's the kimono pattern. It's Simplicity #4134.