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Post by tanzanlinnear on Aug 18, 2005 4:11:29 GMT -5
This is something that's been on my mind for a while, mainly due to my new saber having a slightly longer grip than my previous one... But in the movies (and photos) there seem to be two schools of saber handling... Either gripping it so close to the top that the blade looks like it's projecting from a fist, or so low down the grip there are several inches of hilt above the fist. I know it's a matter of personal preference, but it does make me wonder... Anakin tends to hold his saber right at the limit of the grip, but in ATOC, Count Dooku was able to cut through the emitter of one of the sabers he was using (so he must've been holding it lower down) If this is the case, surely Jedi that use this lower grip form (Luke, Obi-Wan and Master Windu) are actually in a greater danger of their opponent slicing through their saber to disable it than someone holding it closer to the top (Anakin and Master Yoda) I normally hold my saber close to the top (but with about an inch of uppergrip and emitter visible (same balance point as a katana) although for the recent photo I took, I did hold it lower so some of the saber detail would be visible Any thoughts? Personal preferences?
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Post by Olos Nay on Aug 18, 2005 8:28:51 GMT -5
I think it all depends how your saber is balanced.
my lightsaber is currently misbalanced. e.g. the balance spot is right in between my upper and lower grip.
A thing that need to be understood about the lightsabers is that they are lightSABERS, not lightSWORDS. The weapon is designed for 2 hands to hold. PT sabers are often designed otherwise (see Maul, dooku. Those aren't lightsabers but lightSomethingElse)
All in all, I believe you make your saber how you like and how it feels comfortable.
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Post by tanzanlinnear on Aug 18, 2005 8:49:25 GMT -5
my lightsaber is currently misbalanced. e.g. the balance spot is right in between my upper and lower grip. Surely that would be perfectly balanced, rather than inbalanced? With a regular sword, the balance point is normally about 2 inches above the tip of the hilt so the blade moves properly. Lightsabers have always been described as having no mass to the blade at all, I'd've thought if the hilt itself was heavier at one end or the other, it could seriously affect how the blade was controlled. My new saber was designed to combine both the standard lightsaber hilt with the elegence of one designed for Form II combat. The balance point of my new saber is exactly in the middle of the activation LEDs, which is about an inch forward of the curve of the lower grip. As a result, when held with two hands, it can still be manipulated in the same way as any other saber, but when used with one hand on the lower hilt, the balance point gives it incredible precision I agree, everyone's saber should be designed for what they find the most comfortable, I was just thinking of how there are many Jedi who hold the saber so far back on the grip, it's a surprize that we haven't seen any other sabers being destroyed in a duel (other than Darth Mauls, and that's slightly different)
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Solinbeb Newau
Message Board Member
There are many ways to learn the ways of the Force, but only those who have joined it may know best.
Posts: 1,181
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Post by Solinbeb Newau on Aug 18, 2005 12:12:36 GMT -5
A thing that need to be understood about the lightsabers is that they are lightSABERS, not lightSWORDS. The weapon is designed for 2 hands to hold. PT sabers are often designed otherwise (see Maul, dooku. Those aren't lightsabers but lightSomethingElse) It also depends on your school of training. Fencing has the hand slightly curved when holding the blade, but the handles are shorter. I've always been one to only use one hand anyway because I tend to try more for finesse than strength, whereas my wife uses two hands on hers so I made hers with a longer hilt so that she could hold it with both hands. I have seriously got to get a digital camera so I can show you what I'm talking about. ;D With my curved handle saber, I hold it right on the curve, so the blade would be angled upwards slightly the same way I hold my sabre, epee & foil.
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Post by Olos Nay on Aug 18, 2005 12:24:28 GMT -5
TanzanLinear: my lightsaber should be balanced closer to the middle of the main grip (i.e. lower grip) as the 2nd hand isn't always in contact with the hilt.
Solinbeb Newau: if you want to use your saber with a single hand, go for it, but as of good practice, swords and foils are 1-handed, larger swords (e.g. Claymore) and sabers are 2-handed.
I also have a "hand-and-a-half" longsword that makes a good two-handed sword for my G/F, but not very practicable for me (larger hands and unbalanced for single hand combat)
My lightsaber has a pretty long hilt for good 2-handed action, but I myself like to use it single-handed. Of course, I need to balance it better for such action, as the balance point is not on my good hand. :-(
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Jedi Magus
Message Board Member
Crazy Old Wizard
Posts: 121
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Post by Jedi Magus on Aug 18, 2005 14:24:07 GMT -5
I always figured the grip would depend on the style you needed at the time of use. I looked at the Sabers as a Hand and a Half sword type. One handed grip for speed or control, two handed for power or leverage. But, balanced in the middle of the hilt. With the blade not having any weight, it would all have to be in the hilt. (Dooku must have needed more end weight for his wrists, hence the extra hilt (curved) at the end. Im sure some hilt styles are more balanced to one end or the other, thus a need to ride the hilt higher or lower.
The internal cutaway view i once saw, it should be pretty ballanced with the working parts.
I wouldnt want to ride it too high, these things dont have tsubas or catchers of any kind.(not that they would be any help, they could cut through them easily), plus im guessing the blades are hotter then heck.
Theres a few more factors as well, like the ones with the clamp activaters, might not be better being held in the middle. Mine is designed to be held in the middle, but, theres room for a second hand if needed, but its pretty streamlined. I believe it ALL depends on whos saber it is and their style.
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Post by tanzanlinnear on Aug 19, 2005 3:27:43 GMT -5
I have seriously got to get a digital camera so I can show you what I'm talking about. ;D With my curved handle saber, I hold it right on the curve, so the blade would be angled upwards slightly the same way I hold my sabre, epee & foil. More pictures of the saber would be fantastic My blade training is with a katana, so by habit, I use a two handed grip (a combination of Form III and Form V) However, I also appreciate the finesse of Form II, and wanted a saber that could cope with both styles. When I hold the saber single handed, I let it slide forwards, so my hand is then right on the curve of the lower grip. I admit, this does leave the upper grip and emitter exposed, but I think in a duel, the added precision of Form II would compensate for the amount of hilt exposed. TanzanLinear: my lightsaber should be balanced closer to the middle of the main grip (i.e. lower grip) as the 2nd hand isn't always in contact with the hilt. My lightsaber has a pretty long hilt for good 2-handed action, but I myself like to use it single-handed. Of course, I need to balance it better for such action, as the balance point is not on my good hand. :-( Is your saber purely a hilt, or does it accomodate a blade of any kind? If (like mine) it's just a hilt, I'd suggest making a small counterbalance to slip inside. When I made my saber, I needed an internal support for the LED to rest on (because it is inset through the outertube) I used a 3 inch length of 1/4 inch diameter plastic tube that could be dropped into the outer tube and rest on the fixing screw for the covertec knob. I wrapped ducttape around the plastic tube at the position of the LED, and the LED rested on it at the perfect depth through the outertube. That's had the added bonus of creating a definite balance point (although I admit it was more luck than intentional) You might find something similar helpful in adjusting the balance point of your saber plus im guessing the blades are hotter then heck. Theres a few more factors as well, like the ones with the clamp activaters, might not be better being held in the middle. Mine is designed to be held in the middle, but, theres room for a second hand if needed, but its pretty streamlined. I believe it ALL depends on whos saber it is and their style. Actually, I've read that the blades aren't supposed to give off any heat at all. When Qui-Gon used his saber to cut through the blast doors, it's been suggested that the door wasn't heating up because of heat transfered from the blade, but from friction created by the rotational mechanics of the blade itself, rather like when a piece of metal heats up when it's filed, although neither the metal or the file are hot to begin with. I'd definitely agree with you about the activation clamps though, they can be uncomfortable to hold, I too, prefer my sabers to be as streamlined as possible.
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Post by Olos Nay on Aug 19, 2005 11:52:47 GMT -5
My hilt accomodate a blade, and its misbalanced when the blade is in place. I plan on adding a sound module in the pommel at some point, untill then I guess I'll put counterweight.
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Post by tanzanlinnear on Aug 19, 2005 14:05:41 GMT -5
Ahh, is it balancing more towards the blade or the hilt when the blade's in place? If it's balancing towards the hilt, adding a sound module may affect the ballance even more... Good luck with it
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Post by Olos Nay on Aug 19, 2005 22:17:04 GMT -5
I am trying to bring the balance point lower on the hilt. The balance point is where I place my 2nd hand, which is higher then my main hand. I think I might have to add a pommel or something.
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Post by Kyrian Zenda on Aug 21, 2005 17:09:00 GMT -5
I generally like 2 use the Italian high guard, so would a blade-heavy balance be more useful? I haven't built my saber yet, but i use a stick when practicing, which will be my blade when i build the saber. In the high guard, i hold the hilt at around the level of my forehead, with the blade pointing up and back at around a 45 degree angle. I picked it up off Kingdom of Heaven, and it seems quite a useful position.
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Post by tanzanlinnear on Aug 22, 2005 4:01:49 GMT -5
This is the conflict between Star Wars and Real World physics. A lightsaber's blade has no mass, so the balance point would be purely in the hilt (and that should be centrally ballanced, as if it is weighted to either end, it would be harder to manipulate) A saber with a stunt/EL blade (attatched) should have a balance point like a real sword (about 2-3 inches above the hand guard depending on blade length) Without the blade, the balance point of the hilt could well be away from the center, but if it is intended to be used with a blade, then the balance with the blade should be the preference, rather than without. If a saber is intended (like mine) only to be worn as a costume piece and a blade rotoscoped afterwards, it should be centrally balanced.
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Post by Farra Sti on Oct 30, 2005 21:53:49 GMT -5
my saber is small because I have small hands. (I'm a female and only 5' so am petite) I found my rubies one was quite large so my grip wasn't as good as it is on my custom made one that I made. That doesn't have a blade as its just a costume peice and will be worn on my costume. I made it to fit my hands.
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Post by Seda Navilli on Oct 31, 2005 1:29:39 GMT -5
Well I have two Obi Wan ep 3 style sabers, so I grip those where the handgrip is, above the graflex band and below the windvane. They are both weighted differently but its not hard to compensate for the different points of balance.
My Anakin ep 3 saber I grip way up near the emitter, like Anakin does, and I do this for a reason;the grip section of that style saber is actually pretty impractical, really uncomfortable to hold, as well as being in a bad point of balance. The graflex band is also in a position that means your hand is pushed up high if you have big hands (like me and Hayden). Perhaps this is why he holds his hands so high up on his saber?
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Post by tanzanlinnear on Oct 31, 2005 12:10:54 GMT -5
My Anakin ep 3 saber I grip way up near the emitter, like Anakin does, and I do this for a reason;the grip section of that style saber is actually pretty impractical, really uncomfortable to hold, as well as being in a bad point of balance. The graflex band is also in a position that means your hand is pushed up high if you have big hands (like me and Hayden). Perhaps this is why he holds his hands so high up on his saber? I made a saber based on Anakin's a few years ago ( don't have it anymore as I gave it to my best friend) and I didn't find it too uncomfortable to grip, but, I did use tubing that was narrower than the Graflex units, so that may've had something to do with it ;D I'd be interested to hold an Obi-Wan saber to see what the grip is like. I have one of the light and sound replicas of Luke's saber (in nice chunky plastic ;D ) and when gripping that on the upper grip, when it's spun in my hand, I find that the windvane part digs into the base of my index finger, but that could all be down to skewed size ratio due to the blade and bulb...
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