Post by Ky-Wan Zann on Nov 27, 2011 13:37:46 GMT -5
Hi folks. I've also posted this on the RL Jedi section as well.
Hi folks. I'm currently remaking my tunics for resubmittance and changing all those blacks to browns and so on. However I'm hoping to have these come out as the best I've ever got. Gathered a lot of Intel from here and online and other sites about everything from tabards not being one piece to shoulder tuck width and placement, hems, only lining sleeves and so on. All this stuff is going well. But one last thing I need to get cleared on before I do these again. It's my main area of frustration with Jedi attire for myself. That pesky neckline and where and how the collar or band should sit around it.
I’ve broken this up into several theories with links to images so I'd like some feedback please from those that may know. My problem is if the neckline is too large then the band does not hug my neck as it should do, but if it's too small it does not cross low enough to see the under tunic. With some heavy researching I think I might have some ideas as to why or how to fix it.
First off my tunic material is raw silk or silk noil as it's called. It’s the same color as Ani EP2. Qui-Gon used the exact same material for his except in a cream type color so I'm not working with fabrics that simply weren't made for this or anything.
So....
From what I have seen in most PT images the collar neck band seems to hug the actors neck and curve around behind and cross down in front. Samurai inspired. Most patterns sold that we mod for Jedi tunics however I have found have the collar standing up it seems rather than laying as the films show. I certainly have that problem. Lately looking at images of specifically Ani and Mace and Qui-Gon (Obi-Wans fabric seems to lay very easy because it’s not the standard looking type of material) because those two seem to have the idea I’m trying to pull off. As you can see in these links below from Padawans Guide and Czech site, the collar on them seems to stand up at the back of the neck but fold around.
padawansguide.com/promo/anakin_obi1_promo.jpg
padawansguide.com/promo/obiwan_mace_ani1_promo.jpg
padawansguide.com/anakin/images/hayden_frenchinsider4.jpg
padawansguide.com/anakin/costume/jedi/Anakin_big.jpg
There lie my troubles. As mentioned if I make my neck hole that large the collar neckband does not seem to hug the neck as it does the actors. That leads me to think that perhaps it’s not so much the neck hole as the neckband itself. Seems like a simple thing to make right? Take a strip of cloth fold it over sew it to the tunic. Most patterns show making neckbands this way. I think though it’s more how the neckband is made that helps give it that shape we need from it. After looking at some images it does seem as if the neckband is possibly two strips of fabric sewn together. I could be mistaken but some of these shots from Mace and Qui-Gon give me that idea.
padawansguide.com/sonnet/qg5.jpg
If you look up at the neck it looks as if there is a seam on the neckband of the outer tunic.
www.cswu.cz/obiwan/obi/ep2poz/obip217.jpg
Here as well if you look at Mace’s neckband on the outer tunic it seems to me there is a seam there, though like the Qui-Gon one it’s sewn then tucked into the neckband so like the stitching on the sleeves hem there isn’t stitching seen from outside the tunic.
I had thought perhaps there was a trick to the getting the neckband to lay right at the back, with how the curve in the back of the tunic is cut at the neck but that seems to be standard. Much like any generic Kimono pattern. So I’m really thinking the neckband is what makes of breaks these for those having troubles like myself in this area.
I have also noticed that at times it looks as if there is a seam at the back of the neckband. I haven’t seen any from any angles of shots that I know of. Two images of Ani below show there is not a seam, I watched AOTC on an HD tv on Blu Ray last night and I can tell you there isn’t a seam on the outside of the neckband at the back.
www.cswu.cz/obiwan/obi/ep2nat/obin204.jpg
But it sure looks from the light as if there is on there almost doesn’t it?
padawansguide.com/anakin/costume/jedi/frenchinsider_anakin_back.jpg
Again no seam at the back. Then I came back to this pic that does to me anyway, although again could just be light. Seems to show Mace with a seam on the neckband on the inside of the neckband behind his neck.
www.cswu.cz/obiwan/obi/ep2poz/obip217.jpg
Again, I could be wrong but the theory I had popped together just before I wrote this was that the neckband of the outer tunics is 3 pieces. Two are sewn together where the back of the neck is and the third is sewn to the other two and then the entire neckband is attached to the tunic itself. That may be why that image of Ani above from behind gives the impression there is a seam at the back. There could be, just not on the outside. Keeping in mind folks these are just some possibilities. I could be way wrong with this and I’m ok with that. Making the neckband in three pieces or even just two sewn together rather than just folding over some fabric and sewing it to the tunic may not have any effect what so ever on how it sits. Again my reason for posting this is to hear what you folks think. Right track?, doesn’t make a difference?, stuff that many of you may know that I don’t because I don’t sew, all I can do is try to give my wife as much info as I can with help from fine folks like you on how to make these look correct. If anyone knows for sure how/ what Trisha did for these things please feel free to post and let us know. I know there are tutorials on the site here and there great stuff, but I’m really curious on this neckband possibility as well. If indeed making the neck band differently effects how it lays on the costume then I may have finally solved my troubles with this costume. I’ve been tweaking these things since I saw TPM back in 99. I’d kinda like to walk into TPM 3D with the blasted things finally finished and correct ya know? Thanks again for your time folks.
Hi folks. I'm currently remaking my tunics for resubmittance and changing all those blacks to browns and so on. However I'm hoping to have these come out as the best I've ever got. Gathered a lot of Intel from here and online and other sites about everything from tabards not being one piece to shoulder tuck width and placement, hems, only lining sleeves and so on. All this stuff is going well. But one last thing I need to get cleared on before I do these again. It's my main area of frustration with Jedi attire for myself. That pesky neckline and where and how the collar or band should sit around it.
I’ve broken this up into several theories with links to images so I'd like some feedback please from those that may know. My problem is if the neckline is too large then the band does not hug my neck as it should do, but if it's too small it does not cross low enough to see the under tunic. With some heavy researching I think I might have some ideas as to why or how to fix it.
First off my tunic material is raw silk or silk noil as it's called. It’s the same color as Ani EP2. Qui-Gon used the exact same material for his except in a cream type color so I'm not working with fabrics that simply weren't made for this or anything.
So....
From what I have seen in most PT images the collar neck band seems to hug the actors neck and curve around behind and cross down in front. Samurai inspired. Most patterns sold that we mod for Jedi tunics however I have found have the collar standing up it seems rather than laying as the films show. I certainly have that problem. Lately looking at images of specifically Ani and Mace and Qui-Gon (Obi-Wans fabric seems to lay very easy because it’s not the standard looking type of material) because those two seem to have the idea I’m trying to pull off. As you can see in these links below from Padawans Guide and Czech site, the collar on them seems to stand up at the back of the neck but fold around.
padawansguide.com/promo/anakin_obi1_promo.jpg
padawansguide.com/promo/obiwan_mace_ani1_promo.jpg
padawansguide.com/anakin/images/hayden_frenchinsider4.jpg
padawansguide.com/anakin/costume/jedi/Anakin_big.jpg
There lie my troubles. As mentioned if I make my neck hole that large the collar neckband does not seem to hug the neck as it does the actors. That leads me to think that perhaps it’s not so much the neck hole as the neckband itself. Seems like a simple thing to make right? Take a strip of cloth fold it over sew it to the tunic. Most patterns show making neckbands this way. I think though it’s more how the neckband is made that helps give it that shape we need from it. After looking at some images it does seem as if the neckband is possibly two strips of fabric sewn together. I could be mistaken but some of these shots from Mace and Qui-Gon give me that idea.
padawansguide.com/sonnet/qg5.jpg
If you look up at the neck it looks as if there is a seam on the neckband of the outer tunic.
www.cswu.cz/obiwan/obi/ep2poz/obip217.jpg
Here as well if you look at Mace’s neckband on the outer tunic it seems to me there is a seam there, though like the Qui-Gon one it’s sewn then tucked into the neckband so like the stitching on the sleeves hem there isn’t stitching seen from outside the tunic.
I had thought perhaps there was a trick to the getting the neckband to lay right at the back, with how the curve in the back of the tunic is cut at the neck but that seems to be standard. Much like any generic Kimono pattern. So I’m really thinking the neckband is what makes of breaks these for those having troubles like myself in this area.
I have also noticed that at times it looks as if there is a seam at the back of the neckband. I haven’t seen any from any angles of shots that I know of. Two images of Ani below show there is not a seam, I watched AOTC on an HD tv on Blu Ray last night and I can tell you there isn’t a seam on the outside of the neckband at the back.
www.cswu.cz/obiwan/obi/ep2nat/obin204.jpg
But it sure looks from the light as if there is on there almost doesn’t it?
padawansguide.com/anakin/costume/jedi/frenchinsider_anakin_back.jpg
Again no seam at the back. Then I came back to this pic that does to me anyway, although again could just be light. Seems to show Mace with a seam on the neckband on the inside of the neckband behind his neck.
www.cswu.cz/obiwan/obi/ep2poz/obip217.jpg
Again, I could be wrong but the theory I had popped together just before I wrote this was that the neckband of the outer tunics is 3 pieces. Two are sewn together where the back of the neck is and the third is sewn to the other two and then the entire neckband is attached to the tunic itself. That may be why that image of Ani above from behind gives the impression there is a seam at the back. There could be, just not on the outside. Keeping in mind folks these are just some possibilities. I could be way wrong with this and I’m ok with that. Making the neckband in three pieces or even just two sewn together rather than just folding over some fabric and sewing it to the tunic may not have any effect what so ever on how it sits. Again my reason for posting this is to hear what you folks think. Right track?, doesn’t make a difference?, stuff that many of you may know that I don’t because I don’t sew, all I can do is try to give my wife as much info as I can with help from fine folks like you on how to make these look correct. If anyone knows for sure how/ what Trisha did for these things please feel free to post and let us know. I know there are tutorials on the site here and there great stuff, but I’m really curious on this neckband possibility as well. If indeed making the neck band differently effects how it lays on the costume then I may have finally solved my troubles with this costume. I’ve been tweaking these things since I saw TPM back in 99. I’d kinda like to walk into TPM 3D with the blasted things finally finished and correct ya know? Thanks again for your time folks.