New Catagory for Sabers needed

[tanzanlinnear]

don said:

Jedidad, I think you hit a very good point here. The originals were hardware sabers (at least in my book).

I see it like this: you get two categories - Harware and Machined
• OT sabers were Hardware sabers
• PT sabers (for the most part) were Machined sabers

If there's a debate over which one is more accurate or "jedi-like" - then they both are. Jedi were supposed to make their own, and if they had the equipment available they'd probably have a machined style saber. If parts were harder to come by, you'd get more of the hardware feel. I love seeing well built hardware sabers, as well as well designed machined ones. Both are hard to get the look right.

Yes, but the catagory I've suggested is for sabers like the one Justin linked to, which have been made from hardware parts, but look like professionally machined/made sabers, not an assortment of plumbing parts. I love seeing a well built hardware saber as well, which is why I think that the well made/finished ones deserve a catagory that recognizes them above the more 'basic' hardware sabers.

[Primrodo]

Well the point I was trying to make is that the degree of professionallism has nothing to do with it being hardware or not. I've seen soem GREAT machined sabers and bad ones too, its all in the skill.

If you have seen the OT Lightsaber props, they aren't all that great, they were glued and tapped together, in real life don;t look half as good as you would think, many at C3 got to see a few OT sabers...pretty horrible.

Even the PT sabers have hardware parts though.

[Jeffrek]

I think you will find that most of the machined sabres made by fans use manual lathe work, even people like Random sabres. CNC lathes and mills are very expensive and out of the price range for most hobbyists.

In fact the only real advantage CNC has is in mass producing quantities of identical parts. The computer ensures they are all the same.

As for if a sabre is sleek and flashy, thats up to the Jedi in question. It also depends on what your definaitions of sleek and flashy are. I consider Obi's Ep1-2 sabre to be sleek and its one of the nicest design imo. When I make a sabre I make it to use, so it must be comfortable to hold, ergonomic and must fit whatever electronics Im going to fit in there. If someone else considers that sleek then thats their opinion.

As with all objects made to be used by people, form follows function. If you can make that form from found parts then great, if you have the means to crete your own then great also. Afterall its the finished item that is important not how it was made.

It doesnt matter if the sabre is put in some arbitrary classification like hardware or machined. All that matters is if you like it or not and that decision is a personal one, classifications do not matter.

I admire anyone who can make a nice looking sabre, doesnt matter if they built it from bits, machined it themselves or did a CAD design and had a computer make it. Design vision is the important bit and that comes from inside, you cant get more personal than that.

heath said:

I don't like machined sabers for several reasons...first of all as you mentioned, I think a jedi should make his/her own with their own hands (not just draw a nice picture). Second, I think they are too sleek and flashy (most, not all) and that isn't what a jedi strives for (well there is Mace, but that is different). Third and most importantly, if feel it is a cop-out, one may say is is more"personalized" or "unique," but all they really do is (even if they do the machining themeselves) is put data into a computer for it reel out....instead if feel it is much more "personal" and "unique" to search for just the right parts and have the vison and skill to modify them to suit their needs in thier overall design. I do make an exception, and that is to the people who use their own manual lathe and hand tools to carve the metal...that is using true skill.

[jedi12]

Very true Jeffrek I like the way you put that. Those are my feels exactly

[tanzanlinnear]

primrodo said:

I've seen soem GREAT machined sabers and bad ones too, its all in the skill.

Exactly, that was pretty much my point, that it shouldn't be the parts themselves (or where they come from) that define a saber'scatagory, but the overall outcome of the project. Maybe it's just me, but when I hear 'hardware', my first thought is "uncreative use of plumbing supplies". Some sabers can be made from found parts and look like it, some (as with the one you've shown) can be made from found parts and look fantastic, and rather than being classed purely as 'hardwear', deserve a title that recognizes the difference in the end result.

primrodo said:

If you have seen the OT Lightsaber props, they aren't all that great, they were glued and tapped together, in real life don;t look half as good as you would think, many at C3 got to see a few OT sabers...pretty horrible.

Even the PT sabers have hardware parts though.

I haven't seen them 'live', so to speak, but I've seen pictures of the OT saber props, and they are admittedly pretty ropey, but given the budget they were made on and the production values Lucas has, they were good enough for the camera, he probably never thought that 20+ years later, people would still be wanting to see the originals (which itself would cause deterioration in the finish of the props)
Yes, they did have 'hardware' parts (If I recall, the emitter of Master Yoda's saber is a wheel from a model Ferrarri) as I said above though, I think the end result of the saber should determine the catagory, not the components that when into it. To use the food analogy again, you could give identical ingredients to a Master chef and a hungry student, and get them to use them, and I'd gaurantee that the two meals would probably look (and taste) completely different, even though they were made from the same things.
[Edit to fix quotes]

[Tobbok Nassias]

I have to admit, the OT lightsabers are the best...in my humble openion. That is another reason I don't particularly like machined sabers....I like the look of a saber that you can tell is put together. I enjoy seeing a saber and being able to say, "this is a washer, this is propane regulator, this is..." and so on...but the again, I'm a scientist, so I like things that have a face value and I can disect. With machined sabers, I can say, "hey, it is a piece of metal, with chunks taken out of it...that's it." I also am begining to see, what I have mentioned before in other threads...what one person says looks great, and another says looks like crap is completly subjective. Everyone has a bias, or preference toward a certain type and look of saber... it isn't fair to say "this looks great, this looks mediocer, this looks pretty good..." It just isn't accurate to all peoples tastes.

[Leda EmBorr]

neophyl said:

It doesnt matter if the sabre is put in some arbitrary classification like hardware or machined. All that matters is if you like it or not and that decision is a personal one, classifications do not matter.

Right.

You can go absolutely nuts trying to classify sabers, costumes, etc. We have hardware sabers, custom machined sabers, diecast resin sabers, found parts sabers, pvc sabers.... and most of these are likely to have been assembled using two or more of these methods combined.

I think what matters is that you are happy with the result and/or have learned something in the process. All you need, really, is a way to generally define the overall method you used, and the specifics can be described in further detail based on each individual piece.

[jedi12]

I agree with master leda

[jedidad]

Well I suppose you could do it like they do on the Dewback Wing forum and the RPF. It's either Hardware or On Topic. There is no middle of the road. In the On Topic it must be constructed to the original specifications and possibly from the original parts used for the prop. Everything else is hardware. Over all I started out as a prop builder and that is my main hobby today, even before costuming. Check out the Sunrider project board under DH-17 blasters and you will see what I mean. I have been prop building since 1977 and I always say, "If you like it, it really does not matter what anyone else thinks" I have never had my feelings hurt because some one thought there work was better or I was not as skilled as they were in the construction or design. I respect the skills and labor that other prop builders put into there work because I know how they feel about what they are doing. It's self satisfaction. I would hope no one here would ever put down another members product, constructive critisism is great, but remember some here have not the tools or the means to buy every part that they may really want to make the exact prop they desire. It only makes us better at our craft. Keep those "not the saber I really wanted" around to look at as you build the new one, because those first or not so good props are your inspiration to do better on your next venture. We are all here to help each other, I have more than once sent another member parts to build something they could not find were they live. Besides, how many OB1 sabers can there be. Every one's saber is slightly different unless you are buying them from a company. Which I myself do not do. I take great pride in slaving over my work bench to create something that came out of my head and not someone else's. I will re-create a design I like as you can see by the thread "Hardware saber complete" I will copy for my own satisfaction, but I would rather make it then buy one. Of course unless I find a great deal on an El Blade of course Build with your hearts not your pocket book. But love what you build. Because in the end, you are the one who has to look at it every night before you go to bed. By the way, I think all you guys and gals sabers look great. I am proud of all of you and your creations. "May The Force Be With You All Tonight.

8-)Jedidad

P.S. Bet your glad I'm done rambling on. Must be those Tatooine suns.

[tanzanlinnear]

Given the opposition to the suggestion, I shall consider myself beaten on this issue ;D

[jedidad]

TanzanLinnear,

I think if you would like a multiple saber catagory you should probably consult the administrator of the boards. I see nothing wrong with multiple category's, I think that someone at the top should be involved in the decision on specs for each catagory. I myself would suggest:

On Topic sabers: The same as the originals, with machined, cast or resin used duplicate parts. Or actual parts used to make the screen versions but no hardware at all. Must fit dimensions of originals.

Hardware sabers: All common parts found, store bought, some percentage of machined, cast or resin parts acceptable.

Hardware custom: At least 75% machined, cast or resin of non common parts with 25% hardware.

Give some input to the top and I think they will listen. I think if we have multiple category's we should also have a place to post tutorials on how to make the sabers we display here. Once again just my 2 cents.
Jedidad

[jedi12]

we don't need another catagory for hardware sabers everything is good the way it is

[Farra Sti]

I've hand made my own and there are pics in the appropriate thread

[tanzanlinnear]

jedidad said:

TanzanLinnear,

I think if you would like a multiple saber catagory you should probably consult the administrator of the boards. I see nothing wrong with multiple category's, I think that someone at the top should be involved in the decision on specs for each catagory. I myself would suggest:

On Topic sabers: The same as the originals, with machined, cast or resin used duplicate parts. Or actual parts used to make the screen versions but no hardware at all. Must fit dimensions of originals.

Hardware sabers: All common parts found, store bought, some percentage of machined, cast or resin parts acceptable.

Hardware custom: At least 75% machined, cast or resin of non common parts with 25% hardware.

Give some input to the top and I think they will listen. I think if we have multiple category's we should also have a place to post tutorials on how to make the sabers we display here. Once again just my 2 cents.
Jedidad

Those are indeed good suggestions, although my idea for an additional catagory, was not to distinguish between the parts and methods used to make the saber, but the outcome, and the appearance of the finished saber.

jedi12 said:

we don't need another catagory for hardware sabers everything is good the way it is

I disagree, Master Lyghtsyder, but as Master Em-Borr once said about me before, I am not one to argue my position into irrelevence.

[jedi12]

well I gyess we disagree because as far as I am concerned everything is fine the way it is and I also speak for a number of others that have read this thread but just never posted because they think that it is a waste of time