New Catagory for Sabers needed

[tanzanlinnear]

We obviously have custom and replicas, which can be either machined or hardware, but I don't think 'hardware' is a specific enough term... For example, I think 'hardware' should only refer to sabers which have been made from parts found in hardware stores (or other places) where the parts are still identifiable as a part for their original purpose. However, it is possible to make a saber with parts found in hardware stores where it is impossible to tell what the part was originally for, and I think there should be a seperate term for sabers like that. I thought maybe 'hand made', but wondered what others feel on the subject? I'd suggest that the latest saber I'm making (to sell) would be a good example of 'hand made' rather than 'hardware'...

[Olos Nay]

from my point of view and the number of posts on hilts, I think that hilt is good for both official replicas, hardware / found parts sabers and for any customs (machined, molded or whatnot)

I wouldn't see why we'd need another category since its not that much discussed in here...

also, what is the difference betweeen getting parts in the hardware store to make a custom saber and getting what used to be found items (such as an MPP flash) to make a movie replica?

Here's 3 sabers I made: none are commercial.

[tanzanlinnear]

yanlauzon said:

from my point of view and the number of posts on hilts, I think that hilt is good for both official replicas, hardware / found parts sabers and for any customs (machined, molded or whatnot)

I wouldn't see why we'd need another category since its not that much discussed in here...

also, what is the difference betweeen getting parts in the hardware store to make a custom saber and getting what used to be found items (such as an MPP flash) to make a movie replica?

I think it's just a way of better clarifying the type of saber hilt a person has or has made. At present, anything not machined (custom or replica) is called 'hardware', which I feel doesn't do justice to sabers which have been handmade, but look like film-quality props (which yours definitely should count as) I've lost count of the sabers I've seen in the Custom Saber competition that are either recreations of existing sabers (so completely unoriginal) or so poorly put together, that it's not a case of identifying which parts of the saber where what, but a case of looking at an assortment of hose couplings jammed together and called a lightsaber, hence why I feel another catagory might be better, so people's sabers can be better described

[Don Solo]

It seems like you're trying to draw a line between very well done hardware sabers and not so well done hardware sabers. I mean, sure, everyone who makes their own lightsaber doesn't want people to look at it to think "oh, I've seen that piece at Lowes!" - but it'll happen sometimes. There's no reason really to hide that it was made from found parts... if it looks good then it looks good. I think "hardware saber" applies to any saber made primarily from bits available at a hardware store, weather the bits are modified or not. If anything, I think it's more impressive to see a hardware saber that has no distinguishable parts; it really just shows of the maker's skill.

[tanzanlinnear]

don said:

It seems like you're trying to draw a line between very well done hardware sabers and not so well done hardware sabers. I mean, sure, everyone who makes their own lightsaber doesn't want people to look at it to think "oh, I've seen that piece at Lowes!" - but it'll happen sometimes. There's no reason really to hide that it was made from found parts... if it looks good then it looks good. I think "hardware saber" applies to any saber made primarily from bits available at a hardware store, weather the bits are modified or not. If anything, I think it's more impressive to see a hardware saber that has no distinguishable parts; it really just shows of the maker's skill.

Yes, essentially, the very well made hardware ones being the 'hand made' ones, and the other ones being 'hardware'. I agree completely, when you can't tell what is what, it certainly does add a certain something to the overall air of the saber To me, as I said above, there's nothing worse than seeing a load of plumbing parts that've just been jammed together with no creativity, and the person then trying to say it's a lightsaber. Even if a saber has been made with parts from a hardware store, if you can't immediately tell what they are, then I think the project is a success, and worthy of that little bit of extra recognition

[Olos Nay]

so who's going to tell if a saber is worthy of extra given category name?

right now, all that's there is 1- handmade 2- machined and the 3rd one being handmade with machined parts gotten here and there.
I like it like that. I don't think I should have extra recognition because I made my saber look professionnal even while getting all my componenta at home depot.
I already have more gratification knowing I enjoyed the work and it looks like I wanted it to.

The end result is always going to be that: people either like the prop or not, no matter how you made it. Machined lightsabers can be of lousy style too... I was looking at randomsabers.com and several of those I wouldn't exchange for my found part sabers... its always a matter of tastes, and if the jedi likes a bunch of pipe and hoses, its his own choice.

[Starkindler (The Naked Jedi)]

essentially they are all "hand made". differing skill levels may be apparent, but the care and work that goes into them is the same.
I've seen some amazing PVC sabers that may not even qualify as "hardware" since PVC can be found in plumbing supply stores too.

I like HILT as well.....with whatever qualifiers each poster feels will explain their hilt.
I posted my first full sized hardware saber in another thread and listed it as a BYB Style VIII with mods since that is what it is........
I guess I just like all hilts for the dream they represent..........................

[Solinbeb Newau]

So, there'd be something like

---

Replica

Custom Machined

Custom Metal Assembled (Hardware)

Custom Other Assembled (PVC, Lego and the like)

---

Wouldn't there have to be categories for those handmade from public plans (BYB) and true custom hilts as well?

[Tobbok Nassias]

First, I don't like machined sabers...don't get me wrong, I have nothing against them, I just don't want one. I take pride in my hardware sabers, but they are just that...no matter how they are altered they are made from pre-existing hardware components, and are therefor "hardware" sabers. Good or bad, they are "hardware." There is no need for extra catagories just so someone can say, "My saber is better than yours." And no offense (as I would be happy to recieve this comment myself) TanzanLinnear, but your saber is made of hardware, it looks like it is made of hardware, and it is a "hardware" saber. If you really want to classify it as something besides a "hardware" saber, then that is your right, but I feel no need for a wide spread adoption of the term.

[tanzanlinnear]

yanlauzon said:

so who's going to tell if a saber is worthy of extra given category name?

I think you've misunderstood my intention, it's not a case of saying that one saber is any more or less worthy than another, just that they could be more accurately catalogued. To use food as an analogy, there's home cooked, microwaveable meals, fast food, and gourmet restaurant cuisine. Now, the first three are pretty similar to each other, but you can't pass a microwaved meal off as a home cooled meal.

yanlauzon said:

right now, all that's there is 1- handmade 2- machined and the 3rd one being handmade with machined parts gotten here and there.

No, at the moment, there is (for either replica or custom) either 1. Machined, or 2. Hardware, hence why I suggested the third classification.

yanlauzon said:

I like it like that. I don't think I should have extra recognition because I made my saber look professionnal even while getting all my componenta at home depot.
I already have more gratification knowing I enjoyed the work and it looks like I wanted it to.

Again, it's not so much a case of if a person thinks their work is 'better' or get extra recognition, just a case of there is a clear difference between a saber which has been made from found parts but looks professional, and a saber which has been 'slapped together' from found parts with no effort made to disguise or adapt those found parts... As with people's Jedi costumes, some are 100% screen accurate in every detail, some are equally good costumes, but not 100% screen accurate, and then you have the BathRobe Jedi. It's not a case of saying one is better than the other, just that there are differences in construction, which are not adequately catagorized by being lumped as 'machined' or 'hardware'.

[tanzanlinnear]

starkindler said:

essentially they are all "hand made". differing skill levels may be apparent, but the care and work that goes into them is the same.
I've seen some amazing PVC sabers that may not even qualify as "hardware" since PVC can be found in plumbing supply stores too.

Yes, the point I was trying to illustrate was that there should be different catagories for the different skill levels, which at present, there is not...

[tanzanlinnear]

solinbeb said:

So, there'd be something like

---

Replica

Custom Machined

Custom Metal Assembled (Hardware)

Custom Other Assembled (PVC, Lego and the like)

---

Wouldn't there have to be categories for those handmade from public plans (BYB) and true custom hilts as well?

Exactly. I think you've covered 'true custom hilts' rather nicely already, my friend, although I would consider hardware as part of the 'other assembled' catagory, with custom metal assembled reserved for ones that have a professional finish Ones made to public plans (BYB) Should be classed as either replicas (as they are built to existing specifications) or custom assembled

[tanzanlinnear]

heath said:

First, I don't like machined sabers...don't get me wrong, I have nothing against them, I just don't want one.

I don't mean to sound belittling, so forgive me if I come across as such, but is that because you do not have the facilities to machine a saber, or simply because you do not like their appearance? I think machined sabers are by far the most professional looking sabers available, and as they can be machined to exact specifications, give 100% freedom of design, where a hardware saber is limited to the specifications of the part involved (and how much each part can potentially be modified).

heath said:

I take pride in my hardware sabers, but they are just that...no matter how they are altered they are made from pre-existing hardware components, and are therefor "hardware" sabers.

Is that because you feel that you are actually 'making something' with your own hands rather than using a machine to do the job? I can understand why you may feel that way, but something my graphics tutor told me springs to mind: "Tracing isn't cheating, it's using a tool." Using a machine to mill or lathe a saber isn't cheating, it's just using a different tool to do so, and produces a much more professional result.

heath said:

Good or bad, they are "hardware." There is no need for extra catagories just so someone can say, "My saber is better than yours."

As I said above, it's not a case of saying 'my saber is better than yours', it's a case of accurately catagorizing things. Yes, there are good hardware sabers and bad hardware sabers. However, the majority of the good hardware sabers are of sufficient skill to be catagorized in a way that recognizes that, rather than the existing 'include all' hardware catagory, which does not recognize the more professional finish.

heath said:

And no offense (as I would be happy to recieve this comment myself) TanzanLinnear, but your saber is made of hardware, it looks like it is made of hardware, and it is a "hardware" saber.

Actually, the first picture is not my saber. It's one I've made to sell (and admitedly rather like), but it's not 'my saber'. Yes, it was made from hardware parts, and probably still looks like that to a degree, because a) it is still a work in progress and not 100% finished, and b) as previously pointed out, it is a bad picture, so it's not looking as good as it will when finished. However, this is my saber, and although it was made from hardware parts, it looks better than what you might call a 'bad' hardware saber, again, an example of a saber that could be classed as something other than 'hardware', because of how it's been finished:

heath said:

If you really want to classify it as something besides a "hardware" saber, then that is your right, but I feel no need for a wide spread adoption of the term.

I do, because I don't think there should be 'good' or 'bad' hardware sabers, which is more insulting to other sabers, because as mentioned before, all sabers have care and time spent on them, so to say any are bad, is wrong and disrespectfull, but, that does not mean that they should all be classed the same, hence why I suggested that there could be machined sabers, hardware sabers, and then another catagory to recognize the ones that have been made from hardware parts, but finished to a more professional standard than ones that are simply hardware parts put together with no attempt to further modify them. Even then, these non-professionally finished hardware sabers still look better than the ones that are little more than hardware parts randomly jammed together in a stack and then called a lightsaber. As I've said before, it's not a case of saying "my saber's better than yours", it's a case of saying "my saber was made and finished differently to yours," so belongs in a different catagory.
[Edited for clarity]

[jedi12]

I tjink that everything is set the way it should stay. A hardware saber is a work in progress so the include all fits it perfect because of modifications that will take place at a later time such as my saber.

This was my FIRST saber I am now in the process of modifying it as I post. So we don't need anymore catagories on sabers the ones that we have right now are fine the way they are.

[tanzanlinnear]

jedi12 said:

I tjink that everything is set the way it should stay. A hardware saber is a work in progress so the include all fits it perfect because of modifications that will take place at a later time such as my saber.

I'd disagree that a hardware saber is necessarily a work in progress. The one I've shown is still a work in progress, but once it's completed, it will have a professional finish, and not need modifying further.
At present, the term 'hardware' is being used to describe essentially any saber that is being made by hand with purchassed components of any kind, regardless of the standard of the finished saber, but I feel 'hardware' should only refer to finished sabers where it is still possible to not only identify each component, but where the component parts have not been modified in any way, so I don't think that catagory is sufficient, because it is still possible to make a saber by hand from purchassed parts, yet still achieve a professional finish, where the parts are not necessarily identifyable or have been modified from their original state, and I think sabers like that deserve a catagory of their own to distinguish them from both machined sabers, and the 'other' kind of hardware sabers. Again, it's not a case of saying "mine's better than yours", just a case of "mine's different from yours" as with the catagories of costumes.

jedi12 said:

This was my FIRST saber I am now in the process of modifying it as I post. So we don't need anymore catagories on sabers the ones that we have right now are fine the way they are.

That's a really good saber, what kind of parts have you used in it's construction? What modifications have you got planned? As above, I'd disagree, as I think another catagory would allow for better classification of a saber.