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Post by heavymetalpastor on Dec 5, 2004 21:39:39 GMT -5
This is an old thread, but contains some good discussion.
Feel free to add to it! 
Ledadoes anyone do that here? if so, what kind of training routines would be best? I am involved with fencing, Iaido(japanese swords) and I play with claymores... should I stick with one style or should i try to merge them into one style? also what about saftery gear when practicing with opponents? any recomendations?
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Post by mooglar (Malim Vincible) on Dec 6, 2004 8:56:21 GMT -5
I would look into learning stage fighting techniques and kendo. Stage fighting is adaptable to any type of weapon and is what they use in the films. Kendo uses long straight bamboo sticks which are somewhat similar to a lightsaber.
Fencing techniques would work with a lightsaber if you were really fighting with someone, I think, and would probably be more effective than the wide, slow cuts and stuff they do in the movies. But using fencing techniques won't look or feel much lightsaber dueling from Star Wars.
Most other weapons styles that I know of focus pretty heavily on the particular weapon and probably wouldn't translate well to a lightsaber. For instance, as I imagine you know, lots of Japanese swordsmanship focuses on draw cuts (Iaido, which you said you've studied) and regular cuts with the curved edge of the blade. But using a lightsaber, with a straight blade that doesn't need to be drawn across flesh in order to cut, those sorts of techniques would be ineffective and wasteful.
Since there is no real style for lightsaber dueling, and since a lightsaber is a unique enough weapon that it would develop its own styles, I think anything you learn from any style that seems applicable to a lightsaber could be added to your style.
Just my opinion, of course.
As far as safety, I would use padded sport swords like Action Flex swords for sparring and dueling, with some sort of eye protection at the very least. If you are planning to duel with any kind of wooden, plastic, or other hard material, I would suggest eye protection, a mouthpiece, head protection, a chest pad, a cup, and arm pads. Leg pads too, if you are allowing strikes below the belt. Remember that you can beat someone to death with a wooden club and in the past (according to "The Secret History of the Sword," fighters using wooden weapons have knocked parts of peoples' heads off in battles in the past). You can break someone's arm or rib with a wooden practice weapon pretty easily, especially if either or both of you are not very skilled. Be careful using anything harder than a sport sword.
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Post by Leda EmBorr on Dec 7, 2004 0:49:21 GMT -5
I totally agree here... saftey first. If you're going to study swordsmanship even in "play", you have to protect yourself from preventable accidents. That being said, I recommend this book called "Shimmering Sword" by Nick Jamilla www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0971879605/qid=1102400901/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-1433424-9672666?v=glance&s=booksThe author delves into the nature of the sworfight itself and the mindset of the swordsman, as well as offering you the many histories behind the weapon. It compares and contrasts eatern and western styles, and illustrates how Lightsaber fighting is a combination of many different styles, not to mention the choreography involved! I have a friend in California who studies Iaido very seriously and he has shown me some kata... not that I remember it, and I took an 8 week class in fencing a while back, and I can say that it was helpful... not exactly lightsaber style, but it taught me how very important "stance" and "grip" are when you're fighting. I do wish I could duel on a regular basis... but finding a local partner is a problem. I'll just have to stick to swinging the bokken every morning... but not in the living room!  |
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Post by mooglar (Malim Vincible) on Dec 7, 2004 10:12:36 GMT -5
My opinion on "The Shimmering Sword" differs a bit from Leda's, I think. (Sorry, Leda!)
I found the book to be very poorly written, to the point of distraction. But, beyond the writing style, I was very disappointed by the book. After reading it, I didn't really feel like I had learned much of anything new. I found it devoid of facts beyond what I could find myself in an afternoon at the library.
I also thought his analyses tied the Jedi too closely to Japanese warrior tradition -- likely because of the strong Japanese elements in their outfits -- in areas where Jedi traditions, mindset, and culture seem markedly different than the Japanese warrior traditions, mindset, and culture that he is trying to make parallels with.
I guess, from what the book purports to be, I expected a much more insightful, expert analysis of the Jedi and how they relate to warrior traditions of various cultures here on Earth. But I found Jamilla's observations facile and that he had failed to really put any deep or meaningful insights into the book. Jamilla's expert analysis just wasn't very enlightening to me.
But that's just my opinion. Hope you don't mind, Leda, though I would be interested to know what you liked about it (to see if perhaps there was something I missed).
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Post by Leda EmBorr on Dec 7, 2004 23:33:29 GMT -5
Since there is no real style for lightsaber dueling, and since a lightsaber is a unique enough weapon that it would develop its own styles, I think anything you learn from any style that seems applicable to a lightsaber could be added to your style. I think that says it in a nutshell, Mark. As far as Shimmering Sword is concerned, ironically one of the reasons I like it so much is the style of writing! Jamilla's words flow smooth and easy, and I can be a distractable person (although I did stop a few times to say to myself, "Wow, what a great sentence!"). And I suppose if one is well versed in the subjects of world histories, cultures, warfare and weaponry, this book may not have anything new to say, but for me it was chock full of facts that I have been, up to this point, devoid of. The content of the book I found to be quite balanced, as Jamilla drew comparisons between the Jedi and a nice variety of cultures and philosophies. I did sense his personal preference of the Japanese tradition over Western styles, but he clearly informs us of his biased opinion in the preface so that we may draw our own conclusions:
"Much of Shimmering Sword refers to historical examples as the basis of Star Wars lightsaber fencing. So too does my own history affect the views and perspectives of swordsmanship which do not, by any significant measure, reflect the general experience of fencers of the Western tradition. Students of Japanese martial arts will probably share many of my interpretations of the sword art and fighting..... It will, however, help the reader to evaluate the text by knowing some of my experiences which serve as the lens through which I look at swordsmanship." I loved his chapter on "Sword Culture - understanding fear". Many of us in the 21st century have no concept of what life could have been like back in feudal Japan, or any other warring nation for that matter. I thought Jamilla offered some good insight here. Is it factual? Maybe. Is it thought provoking? Definitely. Whether I agree with his parellels or not (some I did, while some I would argue), I found the book captivating from cover to cover. I couldn't put it down. ;D |
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Post by mooglar (Malim Vincible) on Dec 9, 2004 11:43:19 GMT -5
Leda wrote: If you are interested in further reading along those lines, as well as (in my opinion) an excellent book on swordsmanship in general, Leda, you might want to check out the book I mentioned earlier, "The Secret History of the Sword" by J. Christopher Amberger. Amberger participated in a number of "sharp" duels with a German duelling sword in the 80s and goes into how different the feeling was from sport fencing, and how differently he looked at swords after he faced someone planning to actually cut him with one. You might find it of interest, Leda, and also heavymetalpastor. It's not directly related to lightsabers or Star Wars, but a lot of what he talks about is applicable to Jedi and lightsabers, I think. It's the best book on swords and swordsmanship I have ever read, though, admittedly, there are lots of books out there I haven't read yet. Of course, the main problem with applying any existing fighting styles to lightsabers is that, of course, no existing style (that I know of!) takes the Force into account. I would imagine that seeing things before they happen, being able to move objects with your mind, and being able to jump fifty feet in to the air at will would affect one's combat style. |
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Post by heavymetalpastor on Dec 9, 2004 11:53:38 GMT -5
I dont realy like acrobatics anyway. I will through in some rolls, throws, and kicks/punches in my choreography, but not to much so.
Along with the choreography i intend to teach practical sword fighting with bokens(or lightsabers) in other words,like fencing and iado... quick and to the "point."
while saving as much energy as possible.
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Post by Leda EmBorr on Dec 9, 2004 19:21:27 GMT -5
Of course, the main problem with applying any existing fighting styles to lightsabers is that, of course, no existing style (that I know of!) takes the Force into account. I would imagine that seeing things before they happen, being able to move objects with your mind, and being able to jump fifty feet in to the air at will would affect one's combat style. lol! That's so true!  Another thing to ponder is how a weightless blade would feel... and what kind of "kickback" you would get when you hit your blade against another of the same. But that's obviously irrelevent in the real world... I think, right? I'm going to look for that book Mark... thanks. It's difficult to imagine what it would be like to actually fight with a "live" blade... with scant armor. Miss a block and.... ouch. I see the difference in myself when I practice strikes with a shinai, as opposed to my sharpened katana... my focus is so much more intense when there is potential for injury, like removing my own ear. |
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Post by Jauhzmynn Enz on Dec 10, 2004 22:43:45 GMT -5
I think the closest one cna get to a weighless blade is using only the sabre hilt.Provided it's balcned perfectly. I tried that and man, it feels strange to me. I can manuver with my gold/black sabre hilt better then i can with the other ones.
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Post by petary791 on Dec 20, 2004 19:42:35 GMT -5
As of now, me and my friends only have battles and duals with those Hasbro sabers (  ) We hope to get FX or EL or something better soon. We have banned a couple people from playing just because they're soo intense that they don't even notice and sometimes they make it feel like they broke your finger. We're trying to make an "Episode 14" and put it on EBaums World ;D |
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Post by Leda EmBorr on Dec 20, 2004 23:12:36 GMT -5
Ouch... that's no fun...
Just tell them that the best warriors are the ones that use restraint when fighting, and that it takes more skill to not to hit your opponent's fingers!
And FYI... EL hurts more than Habro! ;D
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Post by petary791 on Dec 20, 2004 23:18:34 GMT -5
And FYI... EL hurts more than Habro! ;D Yeah, lol, that's what I would imagine, but when I get more "gear" on, i'll be better. Also, I only people who want to "use the force." |
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Post by Naar Birala on Nov 16, 2006 20:23:25 GMT -5
This is a practice video of a duel that was performed in July '06. My partner and i - neither of us martial arts students/experienced swordsman - were preparing this exhibition later in the month. It was semi-improvised, semi-choreographed. We made the routine up as we went along and as we learned of each others' weaknesses/strengths. Our sabers are RSLA. Biggest problem was accidental turnoffs initally, so we contrived JB weld switch guards. Developing solo velocities helped us with saber/body movement. We followed a basic strike/block format called the rule of 3. Well, nuff said, here's the video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n3wsLJDLpo |
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Post by Ky-Wan Zann on Nov 22, 2006 0:20:45 GMT -5
Not bad. |
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Post by Olos Nay on Dec 11, 2006 14:42:13 GMT -5
Nice video, the final presentation must have been interesting. Biggest problem was accidental turnoffs initally, so we contrived JB weld switch guards. Mmm... switchguard. why didn't I think of that before? |
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Another thing to ponder is how a weightless blade would feel... and what kind of "kickback" you would get when you hit your blade against another of the same. But that's obviously irrelevent in the real world... I think, right? 
) We hope to get FX or EL or something better soon. We have banned a couple people from playing just because they're soo intense that they don't even notice and sometimes they make it feel like they broke your finger.
