Could Star Trek tech defeat Star Wars tech?

[tanzanlinnear]

I just wonder because I happened upon this debate the other day, and I have to admit, it got me thinking...
A lightsaber could definitely deflect a disruptor bolt, and probably a phaser beam (low setting) if the Jedi were able to intercept it properly, a higher setting would definitely be too much though...
Ship-wise, someone posted how fast the various warp factors were, and even Warp Two would be faster than Han's boast that the Millenium Falcon's been .5 past light speed. That said, there haven't really been any single-person attack craft, so harder to compare...
The thing that made me laugh the most though was when someone thought that the Borg would be incapable of taking over the Death Star, because they thought that Vader would be able to Force Crush them all and hack them up with his lightsaber... A few problems with that theory. First off, the Borg's shields react to energy weapons. A lightsaber is an energy weapon... Borg shields would adapt to block one after a few swings (Even with rotating modulations, phasers only get 12 shots before being adapted too, lightsabers are a continuous output, so they would be adapted to even more quickly...) Then there's the aspect of using the Force... Vader might be powerful, but he would still eventually get tired and be unable to repel them any further with the Force, and at that point, the drones would just assimilate him (most likely using his existing cybernetics as an easy access for their nano-probes)

Has anyone else got any theories on the subject?

[Plo Strax-Avix]

This 'debate' has been going on since time immemorial...well at least since the first SW movie came out back in the 70s...basically it boils down to if Star Fleet & the Federation of Planets will continue to play the diplomatic game or throw their prime directive into the Void and fight the SW style, which is, to do what it takes to win, and will not stop until your enemy is totally annihilated...

In terms of raw power, the SW universe wins hands down, be it deflector shields or blaster bolts. An X-wing is speculated to be able to out maneuver and outgun a Sovereign Class starship, due to its much stronger power plant. Think about it, a ST shuttle, or runabout, which is bigger then an X-wing, can only travel short distances from the starship down to the planet surface, while an X-Wing has a hyperspace drive which allow it to achieve planetary travel...

I've had this power comparison table with me for a long long time, sent to me by a friend, who got it from a website/forum:

======================================
PT (petaton)--SW: Planetary and large station shields

TT (teraton)--SW: Common shield strength among ISDs and Dreadnaughts/heavier weapons strength

GT (gigaton)--SW: Common weapons strength/lower ships such as Corevettes and Frigates have high GT range shields.

MT (megaton)--SW: torpedoes, both proton (low MT) and concussion (190MT)

KT (kiloton)--SW: fighter's lasers (usually around 2KTs per fighter laser)
======================================
PT--ST: They have not made it this far in weapons or shield strength.

TT--ST: They have not made it this far in weapons or shield strength.

GT--ST: Only a fleet can obtain this power (Borg can get into low low GT)/Borg cube can survive lower GT ranges to mid GT ranges.

MT--ST: Common strength of phasers, diruptors, and torpedoes/ shield usually in this range

KT--ST: Someone mentioned a tri-cobalt device in this range in another debate, though said person has since left that debate. (500KT IIRC).
======================================

Although brute force do not always win a war, there're no lack of strategists, manipulators and scheming deceptionists in the SW universe, and they'll pull all the stops to win if they should get into a fight with the Federation of Planets. Heck, if the Sith can trick the Jedi and take power, Jean-Luc Picard won't even get a word in before he's blown into a million pieces by a whole fleet of Star Distroyers...

Have a look at this pic which show the size of various SW & ST ships...the Borg cube can rival a Super Star Destroyer but their power output is way way smaller(refer to table above).



Also, the humans in the SW universe has had thousands of years of experience in space travel, and had a lot more time to advance themselves, compared to the humans in the ST universe which only had a few hundred years of space travelling experience...

One thing about a comparison or 'debate' of this kind is that it tend to go on forever and ever... ;D

[tanzanlinnear]

I'd have to agree with you in terms of sheer power, and that's a great comparison chart I'm curious though as to where Isotons would fit in though, as Quantum torpedoes have a yield of 52.3 isotons, where photon torpedoes only have a yield of 18.5 Isotons... It's interesting to see the ships all together like that for a comparison, as it's easy to forget just how huge Super Star Destroyers are, I have to admit, I was surprized by the size of the Trade Federation ship compared to a Borg Cube. However... I'd agree that an X-Wing would be more maneuverable than a Soverieign-Class starship, but I don't see how it could out gun it... Also, the runabouts are capable of interplanetary travel, as they have warp drives like any other starship. I still think that the Borg would be capable of dealing with Vader and if not the Death Star, definitely a Star Destroyer

[kivaanzion]

A couple of thoughts on the subject...

Would the Borg shields be able to stop a Force push (just like Obi-Wan uses against the battle droids at the beginning of TPM)?

Vader should be able to Force push the Borg aside until he could escape. All he would have to do then is discover the location of the Borg Queen and Force choke her to death (which according to ST:FC et al would result in a chain-reaction destroying the collective itself).

The scale of the Trade Federation ship is quite surprising and does look a bit too large (well for my eyes at least).

There have been numerous "Star Wars vs Star Trek" blurbs in various Sci-Fi and movie magazines for decades. The results are usually undecided or a tie (guess to make both sides of fans happy).

I wish I could dig out an original article I once saw- It was a fictional battle between the Enterprise D (or was it E?) vs an Imperial Star Destroyer. Basically the Star Destroyer begins hammering the Enterprise with turbo-lasers.

Data keeps telling Picard that there is minimal damage to the Enterprise's shields and no hull damage (it has been established in the first or second season of ST:TNG that the Enterprise's shields could withstand any amount of laser fire).

Since the Star Destroyer poses no threat, Picard does not have Worf return fire and begins polishing his head with Pledge furniture polish (it was a joke after all).

Picard keeps whistling a tune while vigorously rubbing his head with a large cloth, until Data says there is a Super-Star Destroyer off the port bow. Picard has the ship go to red alert but it is too late- The S-SD obliterates the Enterprise with it's "super turbo lasers" (or some other weapon... concussion missiles?)

[Kyrian Zenda]

I think that if you were to put any Star Trek fleet into the SW universe, Thrawn would have probably thrashed them with a squadron of Z-95 Headhunters. With no hyperdrive. Though they reckon a Borg Cube could withstand a lightsaber, could it withstand a blast from the Death Star? I don't think so.

NOTE: The Eclipse-class Star Destroyer (about twice the size of an SSD) had its own mini-superlaser, and not all of them were accounted for, i think.

If you read the Yuzhann Vong books, however, if the ST people were to attack then, they may be able to beat them due to the weakened state of the New Republic and the Imperial Remnant fleets. Just thought that might be relevant.

[Starkindler (The Naked Jedi)]

I saw a debate on this on the star trek bbs over a year or so ago.
The Federation would be AGAINST the Empire and thus would have the rebels and jedi on their side. They would be FOR the new republic and thus have the Jedi and current government ready to work with them.

SW energy weapons seem to based on LASER technology and terminology. As far as the ST mileu goes lasers are old hat since Phaser technology (and the ability to sheild against energy weapons) is supposed to be more advanced. I recall a STTNG episode where they encountered ships using Lasers and they just waited for the ship to realize they couldn't get through the shields.

ST runabouts (DS9) did have Warp ability, many just weren't built that way because they weren't used that way.

ST sheilding technology covered the physical as well as the energy (there were more than one episode where they had to deactivate the shields in order for a shuttle to land without being incinerated.) in the SW movies we have crippled rebel ships dive bombing the Imperial cruisers and slamming into them. IN ST that only works for ships of comparable size/mass.


Tha size comparisons of the ships does pose a bit of a prooblem, but with Phasing technology being more advanced than Lasing technology size may not matter. Lasers work on the bascic principle of coherent focused photonic emissions while Phaser technology is based upon atomic energy states and both breaking molecular bonds and dispersing the component atoms.

I think it would be a fight, but not one the Empire could win in the long run. The New Republic would be much more like the Federation and therefore an ally not an enemy.

my opinion of course....I am a fan of BOTH.

[Kyrian Zenda]

SW does have shielding based on both physical and energy; however, they can raise and lower the shielding in one place whilst keepin it up in another place. Plus SW capitol ships pack proton torpedo and concussion missile launchers as well as turbolasers. Though i do wonder how SW shields would stand up 2 phasers

[tanzanlinnear]

kivaanzion said:

Would the Borg shields be able to stop a Force push (just like Obi-Wan uses against the battle droids at the beginning of TPM)?

Vader should be able to Force push the Borg aside until he could escape. All he would have to do then is discover the location of the Borg Queen and Force choke her to death (which according to ST:FC et al would result in a chain-reaction destroying the collective itself).

The Borg shields probably wouldn't adapt to the effects of the Force, but, Vader is only human (well, other than the obvious;)) and would still have the problem of fatigue. If he was able to get close to the Borg Queen, then yes, he probably could do some damage (I don't think choking would work though, as she doesn't have lungs...) However, I think that before he could get deep enough into the hive, the drones would have adapted to his lightsaber, and would overwhelm him in sheer numbers, and don't forget, it would only take one drone to inject him with nano-probes, and it would be game over

kyrianzenda said:

Though they reckon a Borg Cube could withstand a lightsaber, could it withstand a blast from the Death Star? I don't think so.

I don't think that even the Borg would be stupid enough to attack the Death Star from the front. They'd steer well clear of that and be effective in attacking from the rear

[Jauhzmynn Enz]

Humm I think the SW blasters aren't based on laser technology but MASER. A maser would ahve the kic back you see and the destructive force to take chunks of wall off etc.
Now a Lightsaber against a Borg? This could get messy. They MAY adapt after a shot or two, but there's not much they can do agaisnt the force. Espcialy the kinetic/telekinetic abilites. All a jeid would need to do is use the force to pull the right tubes off the borg.
Ships, I don't knwo who'd 'win' or not. I DO know that if both fleets encountered the Yuutzen'Vong, it'd be one hefty challenge for them to defeat them.

[Starkindler (The Naked Jedi)]

even Maser Tech is treated as outdated by the Trek Mileu.
COncussion missiles seem like just another way to say they go "BOOM" like conventional ones...which wouldn't even register on most Trek shielding....unless they were REALLY BIG.

[Plo Strax-Avix]

tanzanlinnear said:

I don't think that even the Borg would be stupid enough to attack the Death Star from the front. They'd steer well clear of that and be effective in attacking from the rear

I doubt the Borg cube can sneak up on the Death Star...if the Death Star can detect something as small as the Millennium Falcon and capture it with their tractor beam, the a Borg Cube would be spotted lightyears away...That's the exact reason why the rebel forces had to send small fighter aircraft to destroy the Death Star, because the Death Star can not target something that small...

Death Star can destroy a planet and not be affected by the tremendous force cause by an exploding planet, which suggests that they can fire from preeeety far away...

Don't think the Borg Cube has a weapon with that kind of range...

[tanzanlinnear]

saberfreak said:

I doubt the Borg cube can sneak up on the Death Star...if the Death Star can detect something as small as the Millennium Falcon and capture it with their tractor beam, the a Borg Cube would be spotted lightyears away...That's the exact reason why the rebel forces had to send small fighter aircraft to destroy the Death Star, because the Death Star can not target something that small...

Death Star can destroy a planet and not be affected by the tremendous force cause by an exploding planet, which suggests that they can fire from preeeety far away...

Don't think the Borg Cube has a weapon with that kind of range...

That's true, the Borg don't have that kind of ranged weapon, but, they wouldn't try and destroy the Death Star, because that would be a waste of resources. They would assimilate it instead. All that would require would be them getting within transporter range (Borg transporters can punch through Federation shielding as if it's not there)

[Plo Strax-Avix]

tanzanlinnear said:

(Borg transporters can punch through Federation shielding as if it's not there)

Can they? I remember from ST:1st contact that the reason the Borg from the escape pod managed to transport onto the Enterprise was because their shields were down at the time...

I didn't watch that much ST so the Borg could have assimilated new technology that I don't know about...

[tanzanlinnear]

saberfreak said:

tanzanlinnear said:

(Borg transporters can punch through Federation shielding as if it's not there)

Can they? I remember from ST:1st contact that the reason the Borg from the escape pod managed to transport onto the Enterprise was because their shields were down at the time...

I didn't watch that much ST so the Borg could have assimilated new technology that I don't know about...

That's true, but I think the first time the Enterprise encountered the Borg and Best of Both Worlds, the Borg were able to just beam directly aboard.

[Tigerantilles]

I think what you fail to calculate is the "hero factor". A generic YT-1300 with some guy at the helm is little to know match for a Borg Cube, but you have to realize that if you throw Han and the Falcon at anything ST, Han is instantly cooler and therefore kicks so much more butt.

Han is cooler than Kirk. Chewie is cooler than Worf. Luke is cooler than Picard (I throw them together in comparison because they went to the darkside for a bit then came back). Wedge is waaaaaaay cooler than Lt. Barclay(random background character that is way more important than they really need to be.....Wedge Rocks). The Falcon is much cooler than the Defiance. Does Star Trek have anyone as cool as Yoda?

When you get into the huge "if"s Star Wars always has to throw in the coolest of the cool, all the Jedi's. The only thing that Star Trek can throw out that would do anything to the Jedi's are/is Q. The question comes into play of whether Q would even care, or if we'd just sit back with ghost Yoda and watch the whole thing play out.

Would the Borg really be that much harder to kill off than battle droids? Watching the clone wars Mace Windu took out heaps with his BARE HANDS.