Code of a Jedi

[kivaanzion]

adavenport said:

qualtotem said:

i like the "there is no emotion there is peace" line ...

That's actually the line that I have the most trouble with. "There is no emotion..." sounds a bit too much like suppressing emotions, which overall is a bad thing.

Ok I've really put a lot of thought into why "There is no emotion: there is peace." precisely describes what it means to be a Jedi, and probably why it is first:

People in general are ruled by their emotions. We do things that make us happy. We avoid things, situations, or people that make us uncomfortable, angry, or sad. We put things off because they are tiresome, or boring, or unpleasant. All of this is because of our emotions.

Sometimes we make quick, irrational decisions because of what we "feel" rather than what would be the logical course of action. Have you ever found yourself saying "It seemed like a good idea at the time"? It usually happens when someone makes a short-sighted choice because they feel the need for instant gratification without considering the consequences of their actions first (something my teenage step-daughter does far too often ).

A Jedi must be able to make life or death decisions (which sometimes hold several lives in the balance) without being blinded by emotions of personal gain or loss. A Jedi also has the power of the Force, which is the ultimate power in the universe (contrary to what Admiral Motti might believe). With that power comes an equal amount of responsibility.

Therefore the Jedi must feel nothing. It is not about suppressing emotions; it is about having no emotions whatsoever. Only when a Jedi has become completely devoid of emotions can they think clearly and always make the correct decision. A Jedi has no fear of death, or loss, as they are emotions that could cloud their judgment. Their actions are never for personal gain (happiness, gratitude, reward), but are always for the good of other beings.

Consider the scene in TPM when the big fish tries to eat the Gungan sub: Qui-Gon turns around to look and has no expression on his face. Jar-Jar is freaking out (as would most of us be) but both Jedi are calm and at peace. They are able to think of what to do next without being held back by feelings of fear or despair.

Another scene occurs in AOTC when Anakin is levitating the apple in front of Padme and says, "If Master Obi-Wan caught me doing this he would be very grumpy." Why would Obi-Wan be so upset? Because Anakin is showing off his power to Padme in order to impress her. This goes against two things: Anakin must not try to encourage any woman to want to have a relationship with him, and he must not do things for the sole purpose of impressing others (which in turn feeds his own ego).

This is what it means to be a Jedi. To be completely emotionless. To have no possessions (as they lead to feelings of need, jealousy, and greed). To have no relationships (as they can lead to fear of the loss of loved ones). And to have no fear of death (so they will be completely selfless).

Well I guess I've gone on long enough.

[lazlototh]

it's a good point but what about Qui-gon's advice to young Anakin - "Feel, don't think. Use your instincts..."

Isn't that the direct opposite of having no emotions?

[kivaanzion]

it's a good point but what about Qui-gon's advice to young Anakin - "Feel, don't think. Use your instincts..."

Ahh... I was going to mention this, but decided I would wait for someone to bring this up.

Qui-Gon seems to be a contradiction when it comes to the classic definition of a Jedi. He is viewed as a maverick or even renegade by the council (even his own Padawan pleads with him not to continue defying the Council's wishes).

There are bizarre little acts of behavior from Qui-Gon that are very un-Jedi like: He uses the Force to rig Watto's chance cube throw, so the results will be in his favour. Basically he cheats instead of truly following fate or "the will of the Force" (something Qui-Gon seems to hold in high regard). He also taunts Padme several times when she worries that his behavior is reckless.

Qui-Gon's statement to Anakin is completely the opposite of Obi-Wan's statement to Anakin in AOTC: "Patience. Use the Force; think."

It would seem that Qui-Gon is a bit of a mystery.

However more to the point: I believe Qui-Gon was simply encouraging Anakin to use his Force abilities- something Anakin is aware he has, but does not understand what they are, or why he has them. Qui-Gon doesn't have the time to give Anakin a lesson on what the Force is, so he tells him to follow his instincts.

Basically Qui-Gon is telling Anakin to "just do it!" Don't think about; for over-thinking something (especially a podrace at 600mph) could lead to self doubt and failure. I think this is similar to Yoda telling Luke "Do or do not; there is no try!" Yoda is telling Luke: don't think about it (don't try it), just do it!

[Starkindler (The Naked Jedi)]

There is no passion; there is peace.

[Starkindler (The Naked Jedi)]

jedi are supposed to have compassion, just not passions of their own.

[Starkindler (The Naked Jedi)]

Watto's cube was rigged so he'd win....else he'd not have looked so surprized to have lost.

[kivaanzion]

Yes I've read that Watto's cube was fixed (which would completely justify what Qui-Gon did), but there is nothing in the film to suggest this. The audience only knows that Qui-Gon fixed the game himself.

[Starkindler (The Naked Jedi)]

kivaanzion said:

it's a good point but what about Qui-gon's advice to young Anakin - "Feel, don't think. Use your instincts..."

Qui-Gon's statement to Anakin is completely the opposite of Obi-Wan's statement to Anakin in AOTC: "Patience. Use the Force; think."

It would seem that Qui-Gon is a bit of a mystery.

However more to the point: I believe Qui-Gon was simply encouraging Anakin to use his Force abilities- something Anakin is aware he has, but does not understand what they are, or why he has them. Qui-Gon doesn't have the time to give Anakin a lesson on what the Force is, so he tells him to follow his instincts.

Basically Qui-Gon is telling Anakin to "just do it!" Don't think about; for over-thinking something (especially a podrace at 600mph) could lead to self doubt and failure. I think this is similar to Yoda telling Luke "Do or do not; there is no try!" Yoda is telling Luke: don't think about it (don't try it), just do it!

Obi advised Anakin that way 'cause it was what he needed to hear....emotions not properly controlled are dangerous. Emotions are neccessary, not paramount. The Sith reverse the issue and subject reason to the dictates of emotion (greed, selfish interest, desire, etc.)

[Starkindler (The Naked Jedi)]

SInce the Sith Code was brought up in another thread I thought it might be interesting to use that as a basis for a Jedi Code. Since the one came from the other and they are Dipoles of the Force I thought it might go like this:

The Sith Creed
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.


Jedi Creed
There is no Passion, there is Peace.
Through Peace flows the Strength of The Force.
Through The Force, I gain Understanding.
Through Understanding, I gain Wisdom.
Through Wisdom, my part becomes clear.
The Force shall Guide me.


Just an offering up for discussion to this August Assemblage.........

[Starkindler (The Naked Jedi)]

kivaanzion said:

Yes I've read that Watto's cube was fixed (which would completely justify what Qui-Gon did), but there is nothing in the film to suggest this. The audience only knows that Qui-Gon fixed the game himself.

Subjective.
It seems obvious to me that Watto's die was weighted to throw in his favor. His manner in suggesting it, established personality, way of handling it when he took it out, confidence in making the throw, and surprize at losing all point to the fact that he fully expected it to roll in his favor. He could not admit this though in public so he didn't.

[Seda Navilli]

Even if Qui gon rigged the chance cube, I dont think it was un-jedi like. If slightly immoral acts could not be performed by jedi, even if they were justified by a greater good, then techniques like the jedi mind trick would be outlawed.

I think this is similar to Yoda telling Luke "Do or do not; there is no try!" Yoda is telling Luke: don't think about it (don't try it), just do it!

I always saw it as Yoda helping Luke get his head around the theory of the Force; that it is everything and that in its wake tangibility is meaningless. That is a hard concept to grasp, and the biggest problem with starting Jedi training when you are old enough to have been educated otherwise. Children have no such problem believing in these concepts

[Ani-Chay Pinn]

starkindler said:

jedi are supposed to have compassion, just not passions of their own.

This makes MUCH more sense than the Jedi not having any emotion. You CAN'T turn off your emotions without rejecting a part of yourself. One can accept one's emotions without letting them rule you.

I honestly don't think the Sith have a Code other than "more power is better". Since they tend to operate in small numbers (2 or less) then there wouldn't be much need for a code to rule their "order".

This Jedi Code sounds more like the Jedi we see in the movies...

There is no Passion, there is Peace.
Through Peace flows the Strength of The Force.
Through The Force, I gain Understanding.
Through Understanding, I gain Wisdom.
Through Wisdom, my part becomes clear.
The Force shall Guide me.


However, could something like this really be the "Code", or just a declaration in it? From the movie, we know that the Jedi Code specifies things like "Only one padawan at a time per Jedi." We presume that the Code says something about the trials that a padawan has to pass to become a Jedi, the organization of the Council and conduct for Jedi in general. But it could be much larger than juat a few phrases. I think we can assume that it doesn't have any weird stuff in it like, "Jedi must stand on one foot for an hour in the morning on Tuesdays," but it could be the whole manual for how the Jedi Order is organized.

[kivaanzion]

Perhaps then this is not really the "Code of the Jedi", but the "Creed of the Jedi".

[Starkindler (The Naked Jedi)]

noted and agreed....I changed the titles in my post above to reflect this.

[Mon-Jas Charan]

I was going through some old stuff on the computer and found this. I don't know where it came from, but I though it was interesting.

'Basic Code of Conduct'

* A Jedi does not worship the Force, but does heed it and listen to its wisdom.
* Treat those who are further along than you with parental respect and heed them well, for they are there to guide and help you, not to hinder and belittle you.
* We believe that all beings are part of the Force. As such, all Jedi are part of the same Order, even if they are part of a specific sub-sect or group of Jedi.
* It is alright to be proud of being a Jedi, but be ever-mindful not to slip into a pool of vanity.
* Speak little and listen much. Reserve judgment until all facts are in.
* Do not gossip about fellow Jedi or hold any malice against them.
* Do not lie.
* Be nonjudgmental.
* Keep your word to your fellow Jedi.
* Never use the Jedi Ways to do harm.
* Never betray your fellow Jedi, rather, embrace the virtues of honor and wisdom.
* Never speak with your mouth what is not in your heart.
* Never speak ill of others.
* All Jedi must follow the laws of the land.
* Never accept money for performing the tasks you undertake in service to the force or the Order.
* Never steal
* Honor all people and respect them.
* Never accept the pledge of anyone’s life.
* Remember no one should die without dignity, love and respect. Act accordingly.
* It is up to each Jedi to maintain their personal energy within the Force.
* Respect your knowledge and skills, yourself and your energy, and the Jedi Ways.
* Stay physically and mentally fit.

* Each Jedi should keep a personal journal.
* As Jedi we study Jedi Lore as we would any Mythology. We do not take it as gospel but as a guidepost.
* As Jedi we often will sacrifice some personal pleasure for the good of all.
* While Jedi may use the force to help themselves, it is never done only for personal gain. But instead we help ourselves so that we may help others.
* Sometimes, silence and secrecy are needed in order to preserve the Jedi ways.
* Educate those who want to learn, but let knowledge and wisdom be your guide.
* If a member of the Order needs your aid, give it when you can as long as in doing so it serves the will of the Force and does not cause you unbearable hardship.
* Educate those whose hearts are true and their intentions honest.
* All Jedi must strive to achieve harmony within themselves.
* In disputes involving Jedi against Jedi, only a tribunal of Elders may pass judgment.
* Guests of the Order are to be treated as part of the Order community.
* Members of the Order who do not wish to work towards learning the Jedi Ways should be turned away from the Order.
* A gift given to any Jedi for services done as a duty of the Order is a gift given to the Order.
* The Force may be used to prevent others from coming to harm.
* Elders will settle all differences within the Order, and do so using common sense and justice.
* As Jedi when you mediate quarrels between others, you should hear both sides privately, and then together. If no agreement can be reached, then seek to find the best answer for all involved.
* Those guilty of wrongdoing without knowledge are held innocent; those guilty of wrongdoing by reckless behavior will be dealt with according to the nature of the offenses; those guilty of intentional wrongdoing shall be punished by the laws of the Order.
* Teachers of the Jedi Ways must possess the virtues of ability, belief, wisdom, humility, knowledge, leadership and patience as well as have a calm nature.