a cryptic code...

[Andle Di-Ranos]

I was thinking about the starwars enemys yesterday, mainly darth vader and maul. Dooku and Grevious never really appealed to me when it finally snaped in my head, Lucas is a sneaky old man. Lets do a little bit of math. Darth Maul-palpatines machine of destruction. Not to mention palpatines little Kath hound. + Dooku- A fallen jedi who became the emperors apprentice. + Grevious- Not actually an apprentice but still one of the dark side, who is kept alive by machines = Darth Vader. Darth Vader was a fallen jedi(Dooku)who was kept alive by Machines(Grevious) and was a loyal servant that did anything the emperor told him to do.(Maul) Strange huh?

[Leda EmBorr]

interesting observation.... Vader is all three of those rolled into one...

hmmm...

[Mon-Jas Charan]

Coincidence ... not me thinks.

[Starkindler (The Naked Jedi)]

It keeps Vader as the ultimate "baddy" by comparison.
I remember when people found out he was Luke's father...they were teed off!
In Jedi when the mask came off they were mad that there was even a personin there.
They liked hating VAdser and did not want him humanized at all.

[Andle Di-Ranos]

Yep, i guess george was trying to give hints to palpatines strongest and last apprentice.

[Ani-Chay Pinn]

Vader did have aspects of all the previous apprentices, didn't he? The ultra-cool look like Maul, the fallen Jedi origin like Dooku and the cyborg qualities like Greivous. But I do wonder if Greivous had any real Sith power, but just the training; he was mostly machine. I remember some quote from Lucas about how Vader was only half as strong in the Force as he was as Anakin, specifically because so much of him was damaged or chopped off.

[Andle Di-Ranos]

Nope i don't think grevious had any real power. The main reason he was so good with lightsabers was he had rotatable hands, and a little knowledge of the fighting style. But concidering grevious was a brain with eyes, heart, lungs and a stomach i really don't think he could use the force. Even though vader was only half machine he could only use force choke most of the time, but he could not lift them off the ground as he did with padme. Though he could still crush a room or throw objects when angered. I still think that if it were a fight between episode 3 Anakin and Vader Anakin would win.

[Solinbeb Newau]

If you play the Anakin versus Vader one on one option on the RotS video game, Anakin really can beat Vader...and rather easily, I was surprised.

[Andle Di-Ranos]

Makes since, when he was anakin he was much stronger in the force and could easily out manuever Vader.(honestly could you see vader doing all those moves That Anakin did against Obiwan in E3?)

[tanzanlinnear]

I think you're looking too much into it, especially when you consider that the prequels were only written recently. The only 'new' characters that were in any of Lucas' original drafts were Mace Windu and Chancellor Vallorum. I have to admit, I rather liked Grievous (worst character name ever though...) It was interesting to see a character that could legitimately stand up to a Jedi in combat. Character-wise, I prefered him in Clone Wars. The episodes where he fights with the Jedi on Coruscant when kidnapping Palpatine would have been incredible as live action film (especially the scenes with the Jedi fighting the Magna-Guards at the train station) In ROTS, he's almost a caracature of himself, which I thought was a shame.

[Andle Di-Ranos]

Oh don't get me wrong I like grevious the same way you do. He was awesome in the series and could easily dispatch a jedi, but in the Movie they made him a chicken. He always ran away, and they could have at least explained why he coughed instead of assuming everyone watched the tv series and saw Mace Windu force crush his lungs.

[Plo Strax-Avix]

According to the ROTS Visual Directory, and I quote, "Neither Force-sensitive nor a Sith, the cyborg general was trained in lightsaber combat by Darth Tyranus(Dooku) and is more then a match for most Jedi."

Yeah GL should have explained, at least in passing, why Grievous was caughing. I had to explain this to SO many of my friends it got annoying...

BTW the Siths all have really bad names except Vader...Maul, Sidious, Grievous(NOT Grevious as many think), Tyranus (as if Dooku isn't bad enough already)...

[Andle Di-Ranos]

Grevious was basically a warlord who had only anger as an emotion. (To find out why, go to Grevious discussions in the cantina to see what he originally looked like, his bio, and an interesting find by Tanzain)

[tanzanlinnear]

andlediranos said:

Oh don't get me wrong I like grevious the same way you do. He was awesome in the series and could easily dispatch a jedi, but in the Movie they made him a chicken. He always ran away, and they could have at least explained why he coughed instead of assuming everyone watched the tv series and saw Mace Windu force crush his lungs.

Yeah, I thought that was a real shame too. They definitely should've explained his cough, although from what I've read, I don't think Grievous actually had lungs... If he had, then vacuum would have been as damaging to him as it would a regular humanoid I read that Lucas said that the cough was the easiest way to establish that he wasn't 'just another droid'.

[Andle Di-Ranos]

Not to mention it was george lucas doing the coughing....