The New Master's Corner

[Ris'sa Taun-Setti]

Greetings to all. Since the RPG forums were....shut down.... I have gained permission to move my discussion forum, the Master's Corner here. I will posted an slightly shortened version here. And then feel free to join in, with any discussion you may have.

Enjoy.

Ris'sa

[Ris'sa Taun-Setti]

Good things come to those who wait. I present the first in many such discussions on...

LIGHTSABERS!!

So...sit back and enjoy. And PLEASE comment.



Lightsaber Class

We are going to attempt to bring up some ideas on the subject of lightsaber fighting techniques. This is in NO way a complete excercise, but a work in progress. But, as in any type of activity, the chance for injury can occur. PRACTICE AT YOU OWN RISK. Term used here, will include some martial arts terms as well.

NUFF SAID.

Acording to George Lucas, the creator of Lightsaber Combat, Jedi fighting is something spiritual and intellectual. This means that it tests a persons will, through and through.

Nick Gillard is the one who created the fighting style for Lucas. He said that Jedi fighting is a mix of many styles; Epee, Kendo, Samurai, Rapier, and even Tennis. Becuase a Jedi is up against lasers and blasters, he has to be extraordinarily good. Gillard is right about that, and it makes a lot of sense to me. I like to practice epee, but this made up style for the movies makes me feel much more at peace, so I practice that too (I think it could be because the techniques use more of the body, and uses the body in more ways.)
The lightsaber in the hans of a Jedi can become as powerful as any weapon, defelcting energy bolts back at attackers. In its highest form, lightsaber combat becomes a subtle and intricate art. But every Jedi begins by learning it first principles.


Body Zones:
Attacks and parries are described in terms of the body zone they concern.
(info from: Attack of the Clones: the visual dictionary, written by David West Reynolds)

Attack 1: Cutting downward at someones head.
Parry 1: Blocking an attack to your own head. Blade should be horizontal.

Attack 2: Slashing across at someones right arm or neck. Left to right.
Parry 2: Blocking your right arm and neck from an attack. Blade should be vertical.

Attack 3: Slashing across at someones left arm or neck. Right to left.
Parry 3: Blocking your left arm and neck from an attack.

Parry 4: Blocking the back of your body. Blade vertical.

Attack 5: Slashing across at someones right leg. Left to right.
Parry 5: Blocking the right leg from an attack.

Attack 6: Slashing across at someones left leg. Right to left.
Parry 6: Blocking the left leg from an attack.


Foundations

Jedi in training run velocities endlessly to increase their key skills and physical stamina. Building on those basics, Jedi can go beyond what is physically possible, allowing the Force to flow through them.

Velocities: Practicing techniques with a partner. Each opponent goes through a series of attacks and paries and is repeated in turn at ever greater speeds until one opponent is felled or yields.
.
Dulon: Practicing techniques without a partner (like a Karate kata).It prepares a jedi for the relm of live
combat.

In the Ideal form, Attacks are horizontal side swipes, and parries are made with the blade upright, pushing the point of the enemy's blade safetly away. This rule is reversed for attack and defense of the head, where the attacker slashes down and the defender holds his plade parallel to the ground.

In live combat, constrasting ideas form, the blade attitude for attack is oftened angles downward to minimize body movement and increase speed. But keep in mind the ideal distinction between attack and defense imprices precision.

The Grip
Grip the base of the handle using your left hand with no part protruding below the smallest finger. The smallest finger grips most tightly, with grip decreasing in strength up to the index finger and thumb. The web of skin between thumb and forefinger does not touch the handle.

Your right hand grips just below the guard. The strength of grip is similar to the left hand. Some martial artists have the right forefinger very loose, crooked almost as if it were on the trigger of a gun.
Your hands should be about 2 finger widths apart. Your left hand is the primary source of power. Your right hand guides the blade. . The proper grip is firm, yet relaxed until just before the moment of contact with your opponent's body. Then, the grip tightens, not unlike wringing water from a towel, as the wrists transmit the final snap of power into the blow in a kind of whipping action.

Of course, this grip is changed according to diffrent species abilities, and what works best for the individual fighter.


Salute
Lightsaber is off. Hold in both hands, right hand above left, and bring handle up vertical to the face as though you were going to kiss it. You see this from Obi-Wan Kenobi before Vader finishes him off in ANH. The position is also used in some initiation ceremonies.


Basic Ready Stances

There are at least 5 if not more, alternative ready stances.

Defensive Neutral:
In this stance, feet are positioned evenly and the lightsaber is held upward in front of the body. This position presents the maximum amount of blade for deflection of blows or bolts, and maximized the visual impact of the blade to an opponent as a warning sign. (A Jedi hopes to avoid conflict.)

Aggresive Neutral:
In this stance, feet are placed evenly with the point of the blade closest to the enemy. It presents a minimum visual blade target for attack and tracking.

Center Ready Position - "Chudan "
The basic position is the 'middle guard'. This was the older Kenobi's preferred ready position. Not surprising really, as it requires the least movement to react, especially with a blade that can cut in any direction. In other words, it's better for an older Jedi because it protects him by allowing a longer reaction time.

Left foot forward, right back, weight balanced between feet. Hips and shoulders are square to your opponent. The lightsaber is held in front of you, both hands centered on your body with your left hand is 4 inches in front of your navel. Both elbows are slightly bent. The tip of your lightsaber is at your opponent's throat.

This is the most powerful position, as when it is correctly held, it presents the ultimate defence. Your opponent must get past your central position or he/she will impale themselves on your point! Classical Kendo techniques often revolve round methods for 'tricking' your opponent into surrendering this 'centre' position. When you see two masters jostling each others swords in this position, they are 'playing-for-centre', for the opportunity to attack. This attitude is 'level', that is there is nothing in it to indicate your emotion or intention to your opponent.


"Hasso "
The shoulder stance. This was Vader's favorite ready stance and appears to be so for the younger Kenobi and Jinn in APM images released to date. This one seems most dynamic and has real fighting benefits. Many serious martial artists use the same stance. It's not as "classic" as the Center Ready Position, but is considered more powerful as most other ready stances block your view of your opponent's feet.

Left foot is forward on centreline of the body with knee bent, right foot is back and slightly bent with feet flat on ground and heels about 3 foot lengths apart. Weight is balanced between both feet, hips are rotated to face forward. Lightsaber is held at shoulder level to the right side of your head just behind your ear with blade vertical, tilted slightly backward and slightly to the right. Shoulders are rotated slightly to

In ancient times, Japanese Samurai wore very ornate helmets and large shoulder pads. As a result it became almost impossible to hold the sword over the head in Jodan. An alternative kamae was developed in which the sword was held upright, NEXT to the head, over the shoulder. The hands were held beside the jaw, and the elbows pointed downwards. Hasso is as aggressive a stance as Jodan, but seems a little more calm, and has more options available, as the hands are nearer to the body. This stance could be taken on either side of the head, though the right side was the more common. As with Jodan, Jedi tend to use this stance in transition. Jedi Masters habitually adopt HASSO NO KAME. This stance offers many of the advantages of JODAN, but with less risk.


Gedan
The low guard. The hands are in the same position, but the sword is lowered to point at the opponents knees. This is a weaker stance, it is often used to tempt the opponent into attacking. It is a submissive position, designed to look weak. Classic Kendo has no upwards cuts to make from here, and so this stance is rarely used (the only direct technique available is an upwards strike with the back of the blade to knock the opponents weapon aside). Older Japanese techniques might rotate the grip and generate a slightly diagonal upwards cut at the opponents hands.

Jodan
The upper guard. The sword is held over the head at about 45 degrees. The bottom of the handle points to the opponents eyes. This is a very aggressive stance ... there is very little time required to launch a downwards attack. It takes advantage of the MASS and MOMENTUM of the physical blade. However, this stance limits the techniques available, and makes your movements more predictable to your opponent. Jedi NEVER seem to employ this stance as a static enguarde ... the blade is too quick to use, and a crossways slash across the belly could be used before the Jodan-player could react. As a result, Jodan is only seen in transition, in a split-second pause before a downwards attack.

Waki
This is the hidden stance. The sword is held low, on the right side, with the blade pointing at the ground behind you. It is VERY rare in modern sword arts and always was! It is VERY slow to use, and requires that the opponent is in a blind unthinking rage. Even then it needs superb timing. If you are in the low Gedan kamae, and turn your body 180 degree to your left, leaving your sword where it is, you end up in Waki.


More to follow later.

[Ris'sa Taun-Setti]

NO Comments, ideas or feedback???



Or shall I just quit....?

[jedipadawanjb]

i like it and am also learning a few things please go on

[aries]

very impressive. ive been noticeing these things my watching the movies and reading the books and deuling my brother( with long, light, sticks) and also playing the games and analyzing techniques of the jedi.

keep it up.

[kivaanzion]

I have studied Kali/Arnis/Escrima or stick-fighting. In it we learned that there are 9 basic strikes:

1- a diagonal slash (looking at your opponent) from upper left side to lower right side.

2- a diagonal slash from upper right side to lower left side

3- a diagonal slash from lower left to upper right

4- a diagonal slash from lower right to upper left

5- a vertical upwards slash to the lower torso or groin

6- a vertical downward slash to the head

7- a horizontal slash from left to right

8- a horizontal slash from right to left

9- a forward stab or thrust (this can be divided into three stabs- head/ chest / abdomen)

Using an single edged weapon (such as a machete or katana) requires that you turn your wrist so that the cutting edge always faces your opponent. In other words if you slash horizontally across your opponent from left to right with your palm facing inward- you must turn your palm outward to slash across your opponent in the opposite direction.

A double-edged weapon does not require a turn of the wrist- if you slash across your opponent, your palms do not have to turn to a particular direction. The slashing motion would be similar to the action of using a paintbrush- back and forth.

A lightsaber does not have a defined "edge" such as a single or even double-edged sword. It can be deadly from any angle of attack. The only "safe" area is the hilt.

A modern day weapon that most closely resembles the characteristic of a lightsaber (in terms of attack and defense) is the Kendo shinai. The shinai has only one "safe" area- the hilt (some shinais do have guards, but they are very small in diameter and would be unreliable in preventing your opponent from running their blade down across your knuckles or wrists). The "blade" area is round in shape, just like the blade of a lightsaber. Being made of bamboo, the shinai is extremely light allowing many one-handed techniques that cannot be accomplished with a heavy sword made of metal. Again this is much like a lightsaber which (in all likelihood) is virtually weightless. Although lightsabers do not exist (shhhh )- our dueling versions with polycarbonate blades are light enough to allow many one handed techniques.

I hope this successfully contributes to the thread.

[aries]

also all the tecniqes (mostly swing-blocking) of when you hold the bottom of the handle and the blade of, usually a dagger, is down.

[Starkindler (The Naked Jedi)]

great stuff!!!!
I have studies a few martial arts (hand to hand only) and read about and played with a few weaponsas well.
All this rings very true (especially the 9 attack moves).
In the Shaolin 5 Animal System there is an 8-star blocking and kicking pattern that would be readily adaptable to lightsaber use. The blocks would account for all of the possible attacks mentioned above. I was thinking about it the last day or so before reading this thread vecause my son ants me to teach him how to use a sword. Since my main experience is hand-to-hand I was thinking about adapting what I know.

[Starkindler (The Naked Jedi)]

I would also point out an observation of mine.
I notice that Light Sabers do not seem to "bounce" or "ricochet" off each other but seem to "stick" a bit. this would rather substantially alter blocking and recovery techniques in combat. I could be wrong, but it seems that no glancing or redirection blows would be possible (or at least they would be difficult and perhaps a function of ther blades' power settings).

[kivaanzion]



I notice that Light Sabers do not seem to "bounce" or "ricochet" off each other but
seem to "stick" a bit.

It may be a case of the fighting style. In the original films (especially ANH), much of the fighting style was Japanese based: Kendo, Kenjistsu (both are essentially the same). This is a very force vs force fighting style, which is why you see opponents' lightsabers staying together as they are trying to overpower each other. There is a teensy bit of this in Ep I when Obi Wan and Maul clash sabers just before Maul delivers the Force push that sends Obi Wan backward down the
reactor shaft.

The prequels have adopted many fighting styles. More and more we see a "flow" based fighting style. You strike your opponent, they block or redirect, and you use the redirection as momentum for your next strike. This can be seen a great deal in the grand finale saber battle between Obi Wan and Anakin in ROTS (which is why it appears a hundred times faster than what we've been used to seeing). It is much more Chinese based in style.

And you are right Tenric, just about everything I learned in stick-fighting could be translated into empty-hand combat. Particularly the double-stick techniques.

[Starkindler (The Naked Jedi)]

Very good point Ki Vaan....I do see the style apparent now that you mentioned it. possibly as a way to keep control since Light Saber blades are not forgiving and losing track of your opponents can be the difference between using the Force and becoming one with it... ;D

[Seda Navilli]

In the OT I got the distinct impression that lightsabers do bounce off of each other, when they are held together they make a distinct rattling sound(most noticeable in ROTJ's final duel), like they are bouncing off each other a high number of times in quick succession. Interestingly enough (considering the now very much progressive fighting style) this is something which was not brought over to the prequels.

[Starkindler (The Naked Jedi)]

I always thought that was just the energy exchange from holding them in contact.

[tanzanlinnear]

Just thought I'd add a contribution on the issue, but about the saber's themselves:
The ideal gripping distance for a two handed grip can be worked out thusly...
Grip with your lower hand, raise your thumb, and hold it to the grip (as if trying to snap a pencil one-handed) (This is where your activator should ideally be placed) Now grip with your upper hand so the tip of the little finger is pointing at the tip of the upraised thumb. For fencing, you obviously lower your thumb (or it would probably snap) but that is how to calculate the grip distance. (correct finger tension has been covered above)
Moving onto saber design... It all comes down to what you are most comfortable with. I prefer a lower grip design similar to Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan's (TPM/AOTC) sabers, as they provide a 'lip' for the little finger of the lower grip to locate against. There are times in AOTC where Anakin's upper hand is gripping literally right at the edge of the emitter shroud. This is risky, to say the least, but practically, it would affect the balance point of the saber. Ideally, there should be about half an inch to an inch of exposed hilt above the upper grip.
For the aesthetics of the design...
Whether you're building your first saber or simply constructing a new one to replace your old saber as Master Toth recently had to, there are many ways of selecting your design. For a first-time builder, I recommend borrowing design elements from Jedi that you respect and admire (or obviously your own Jedi Master) My first saber was inspired by Obi-Wan's (TPM/AOTC) and Mara Jade's sabers, my second, Qui-Gon's and Anakin's. My latest saber is going to have an even more personal touch, as although it is going to have a curved hilt like Count Dooku's, and again, a design element from Obi-Wan's (TPM/AOTC) it is also going to echo design elements from my own two sabers, which will make it much more personal to me.
Good luck with constructing your sabers.

[Ris'sa Taun-Setti]

Just throught I would add in this note:


The Lightsaber as a Weapon

There is much discussion amongst Star Wars fans about how a mass-less blade would be used.

Observation of the movies leads some theorists to argue that there is more here than meets the eye. They argue that while the blade has no mass, the method of creating the blade generates a gyroscopic action. This would actually make the blade very difficult to move (ever tried waving a chainsaw about?) The result of a gyroscopic action is that a very slight movement would result in a wild swing plus the familiar hum as the field compensates. In order to control this the user must use a lot of their physical strength to control it.

The blade also does not effortlessly cut through materials, but requires effort - different amounts for different materials. In other words, although the handle and blade are comparatively light in weight, you have to throw a lot of weight behind it in combat. Again, this is not unlike katana, which are remarkably light for such dangerous weapons.



;D