I agree that he did have a little too much screen time, but the people who'd like to see him die are a little over the top. You have to admit though, the Robot Chicken sketch about what would happen if he met Vader was great.
Post by Larwi B'nu on Feb 12, 2012 21:38:02 GMT -5
Well, I know I'm late to the party on this one, but we just saw Episode I again for the first time in 3D...and Jar Jar is STILL the worst thing about that movie!
First, his humor IS more "slapstick" than "dry wit", which is what we had in the original trilogy. Second, I'm in Category 2, folks; I don't want to see him die, but I just would have preferred to not see him sooo much.
He's ridiculous, utterly, but so are Scooby-Doo and Shaggy, yet the Mystery, Inc. gang is built around them, the two goofiest characters on there! If this were a Saturday morning cartoon, Jar Jar would be PERFECT as the namesake and central mascot character...But this isn't. And he's taking up entirely too much screen time. I think I might have preferred him if he and the other Gungans didn't speak in their chopped-up and marsh-alated English. If he made gurgling noises and hand gestures, it would have been better...maybe....
"Choose your friends by their character, and your socks by their color...Choosing your socks by their character makes no sense, and choosing your friends by their color is unthinkable."
Same here,but I'm 38 people think I'm in my late 20's-early 30's Do you think collecting StarWars toys has something to do with it? ;D ;D
I think it does...it's a new youth potion ;D
I'm going to be 53 in a few months and I have a near toy store in my house, living room, bedroom and dining room with toys,,,oh yeah and two closets...and I have about 5 costumes.....so far. one I am working on now is the Luke Skywalker from Return Of the Jedi...
Jar Jar Binks is ok, I'd be in the cat. 2 -3..he served his pppurpose inthe vote but in other times he could be annoying! But Qui-Gonn's tounge grab of Jar Jars tounge was a riot!!!
Post by Larwi B'nu on Feb 19, 2012 23:48:52 GMT -5
Are we talking toys?! Awesome!
Consider me in awe of you, Daystar! If I had the room for it, I would have so many cool toys collected...And the great thing about collectibles and keeping them in collectible condition is that it is TRUE wealth! That's freakin' retirement, people! Can you imagine being able to kick back at 65, and NOT having to work (It's unfortunate that so many hardworking individuals in this country can't, especially after giving so much of themselves and their time to helping BUILD this country...sad)? All you would have to do is sell stuff on eBay. Get up in the morning whenever you darn well feel like it, have a cup of coffee, and log onto the computer to check your auctions ('cause you're going to have more than one going at a time, I can promise you, lol!). And that's all you do all day! Check your auctions, send stuff off to the winners, collect your money, watch TV, and drink coffee!
I hope there aren't too many people out there today who STILL scoff at toy collecting. It's not a grown man playing with toys; it's a grown man building up wealth for his retirement! And it's the same as with comic books; the only difference is that, for the most part, comic book collecting has lost its stigma. Now, everyone seems to understand even grown men and women collecting comic books. But toys? Still regarded as ridiculous....
I think it's great, and one day, when I have the room, I'm going to re-invest in a toy collection of my own!
...May the Force be with you!
"Choose your friends by their character, and your socks by their color...Choosing your socks by their character makes no sense, and choosing your friends by their color is unthinkable."
EpI gave us 2 things: the roots of the galactic empire and the roots of the rebellion, via 2 sympathetic characters written to embody 2 sympathetic ideas:
1) "Padme's Militarization of Naboo" -- padme was written to sell the idea of Militarization of an unarmed society. padme shows us why Militarization is a Good Thing. she is the most 'sympathetic' world-leader you can think of, a 14 year old girl who rules her own planet (does this make sense? no. but thats OK because her dramatic purpose dictates her character traits, NOT vice versa). she makes the decision to use (what jarjar called) the "Grand Army" of the Gungans, to Militarize her people and fight off hoards of killer robots who are invading her home. classic second-amendment stuff. the right to bear arms in defense of your home. and the audience agrees.
2) "Qui-gon's Defiance" (of the jedi council) -- 'need this you do not' (says Yoda). Qui-gon shows us why "Defiance" is sometimes necessary in the face of a Council who no longer follows the will of the force. the Senate is introduced as corrupt and dysfunctional. The Jedi Order is introduced as 'government biatches' who do ONLY what the senate tells them. they do not follow the will of the force. the follow the Will of the People, via democracy, and the senate. even when the senate is corrupt and ruled by a Sith Lord. therefore the Jedi Order is corrupt (whether they know it or not) -- this brings "Imbalance" to the force. Qui-gon makes the decision to Defy Authority, especially when Authority is WRONG. and the audience agrees.
--> the characters of Padme and Qui-gon give us the ROOTS of both sides of the galactic conflict: the "ideas" which led to the Empire AND the rebellion.
Episode 2 pushes these noble ideas down a slippery slope. via 2 UNsympathetic characters, whom the audience loves to HATE: Jar Jar, and Dooku. (jar jar becuse he's an idiot; dooku because he's played by count freaking dracula).
1) jar jar is padme's FOIL: they are inextricably linked, as 2 halves of the same planet. he projects her exact same logic onto the the entire galaxy (against her wishes). he is driven by the dark-side motivation of Fear. as Maul says in the tone=poem: "fear attracts the fearful": without the Fearful, there can BE no "empire". through jarjar, Padme's noble Idea is twisted, into somehting she does NOT agree with. jar jar pushes padme's Militarization down the slippery slope.
2) dooku is Qui-gon's Foil: they are inextricably linked, as master and padawan. dooku projects (what yoda called) "Qui-gon's Defiance" onto the entire galaxy (against qui-gon's wishes). he is driven by the dark-side motivation of Anger. through dooku, "qui-gon's Defiance" is twisted into something he does NOT agree with. dooku pushes Qui-Gon's Defiance down the slippery slope.
Episode 3 makes anakin choose: padme vs Qui-gon (figuratively) ; padme's-slippery-slope vs Qui-gon's Slippery Slope (literally).
anakin chooses "PADME" and burns-to-vader on a ..(wait for it).. a slippery slope. this forces ALL remaining jedi down Qui-gon's path. to immortality. (namely: obiwan and yoda -- they acheive immortality through Qui-Gon's teachings)*
* Qui-gon's Teachings: "Follow the will of the force" this was his one-line Mantra as a character. THIS brought balance to the force.
the Jedi Order brought IMbalance to the force, by following the will of the People; by following the Senate (and NOT the will of the force).
the lesson is: static morality > dynamic morality. (separation of church and state).
a Jedi who Uses the Force, to enact the Will of the Force, brings Balance to the Force.
a Jedi who "Uses" the force, AGAINST ITS WILL, brings IMbalance to the force.
(and a Jedi Council, who follows the senate wherever it leads, even when it is led by the nose, by a Sith Lord, into galactic War, IS "Using" the force, against its will).
((such a council is inevitably destroyed, when the Force, Itself, spawns its Chosen One: to WIPE OUT the Jedi Order -- AND the Sith -- to destroy EVERY living 'force-user', who is NOT following the Will of the Force. including the younglings in the temple))
((all future jedi are taught "let go your conscious self", and "let the force guide your actions" --(as a christian might let the Bible guide his actions)-- this marks the return of the Jedi, and brings Balance to the force)) **
[point] the "Outline" of the PT is:
Ep1: 2 sympathetic positions told by 2 sympathetic protagonists. Ep2: 2 UNsympathetic (read: HATED) characters, reveal the slippery slopes. Ep3: anakin must choose: padme's slippery slope vs qui-gon's slippery slope. (and obiwan gets the leftovers).
---> you can NOT tell this tale without jar jar.
jar jar is necessary, to reveal padme's slippery slope. (lest SHE become the villain in all of this).
like every other character in the PTs, jar jar's dramatic purpose dictates his character traits (NOT vice versa). he is an idiot and a buffoon, for a reason.
--> it is NOT enough to say "I hate jar jar because he's an idiot, and a buffoon"; not when his idiocy/buffoonery has a purpose, which is necessary to the telling of the tale.
afterall, the PT's are NOT "character driven" (like the OT's). they are "story driven". the characters (and their traits) are incidental, to their dramatic purpose.
by contrast, the OT's were based on a character-driven ensemble cast, like the formula behind star trek, or gilligan's island: read: the characters (and their traits) were created for the way the interact with each other (which is exactly what makes them SO endearing). this gives the writer a vehicle for telling, any story you want really.
BUT -- the Pt's set out to tell the tale of "slippery slopes" which led to BOTH the Empire AND the Rebellion. in order to tell this tale, padme NEEDEd a "foil" to push her noble "Militarization" idea down the slippery slope.
without jar jar, padme would have created the empire 'single-handedly' in TPM, when she pulled an army our of her arse and "Militarized" an unarmed society.
--> jar jar was NOT created for the way he interacts with other characters (which is Dismal); therefore, it makes NO sense, to judge him in this context. *shrug*
the one thing that bothers me about TPM is that nobody gets it. even plinkett got it wrong when he said there was no protagonist. people watch tpm and say '..how does this even relate to the plot? IS there a plot?' (etc). they think it's completely disjointed from the rest of the trilogy, as if it were a stand-alone episode that goes nowhere. as if it were only intended to 'introduce characters' or something.
again: TPM uses a 14 year old girl to sell the logic behind Militarization of a peaceful society -- the same logic that is used later, to create the empire. TPM gives us the entire rationale for creating the Evil Galactic Empire AND makes us agree with it, if only on a subconscious level: that fact that the "protagonist" is a 14 year old girl ensures that the audience will sympathize with her; the fact that she's just selling the second amendment ensures that we will agree. the message goes in, with so little opposition from our rational minds, that we are left wondering if there even WAS a conflict in this story.
--> Padme created the empire. in TPM. and NOBODY EVEN NOTICED.
(( when padme is alone with jar jar, and jar jar says "yousa peoples gonna die? the gungans got a Grande Army (etc)". THIS is the scene where padme created the empire. this is the scene where padme makes the decision to use the "grande Army of the Republic Gungans" to Militarize her people and Fight for national security.
(( later, in AOTC, when palpatine's aide says "if only senator amadala were here" .. jar jar zones out for a second and remembers EXACTLY what padme did, in TPM: so, naturally, he creates the motion to use the "grande Army of the Gungans Republic" to Militarize the entire galaxy -- as per Padme's Idea, from TPM. SHE thought it up. (even though she was officially 'opposed' to it in AOTC, jar jar's incurable naivety allowed HER idea to spread across the galaxy like wildfire. jar jar is a VERY important character, whether we choose to like him or not. and TPM is , arguable, the most important chapter in the whole trilogy)).
meanwhile: TPM ALSO gives us the logic that started the seperatist movement (!) -- the jedi have been following the senate instead of the force; the sith gain control of the jedi, by taking control of the senate; the force reacts and spawns a chosen one; the chosen one sets it all to rights by destroying the jedi!! (and the sith).
TPM introduces the jedi as the government's biatch; it introduces the government as corrupt and dysfunctional; therefore the jedi are corrupt and dysfunctional (whether they know it or not) -- TPM shows us (what Yoda called) "qui-gon's defiance" to this fact; later, in AOTC, dooku shows us what a slippery slope this is, when he uses this position to start his separatist movement:
the "Defiance" started WITHIN the jedi order (in TPM), and only spilled out into the galaxy at large, via dooku (in AOTC).
so, really, what we have here is:
a conflict within the jedi order, which manifests itself on a macroscopic scale, (republic vs. seperatist : "padme's slippery slope" vs "quigon's slippery slope"), and anakin must choose -- anakin chooses the "republic/padme" position while (in the end) obiwan chooses the "qui-gon/seperatist" position -- only ONE will lead to immortality. and the rest is history.
this ALL started with TPM:
TPM is the most important chapter in this arc. not the least.
and jar jar is a VERY important character in all of this.
(the biggest problem with this movie is, NOBODY gets it. not even Plinkett @ red letter media -- he should have watched all 3, before reviewing the first one. then maybe he'd know what it was about).
** the imbalance from the prophecy occurred when the Jedi found themselves sworn to follow the Senate, without question: even when the Senate is corrupted by the Politics of Fear,and controlled by a sith lord, the jedi will STILL follow the senate blindly.
(read: the imbalance occurred when the Jedi Order became an extension of the government; the very existence of this relationship between "church&state", allowed the sith to take command of the Jedi Order, simply BY taking over the government).
--> the "dark side grew stronger" when the SIth took over the Senate. and the Jedi were "powerless to do anything about it" BECAUSE they were sworn to follow this Senate.
(read: the knights themselves were powerless.. BECAUSE the Order "exists", to govern their actions ).
--> the existence of the JEdi Order prevented the Jedi Knights from following the will of the force; it prevented them from their role in the balance of things; it prevented them from opposing the sith <-- and THIS... brought imbalance to the force:
a jedi who follows the will of the force, brings balance to the force. it's that simple (and a jedi who follows the will of the senate , brings imbalance to the force, especially when the senate is corrupt).
its got nothing to do with 'balancing' the roster of jedi vs sith to only 2 members each
it's not even about good vs evil.
its about dynamic morality vs static morality.
when you follow th "will of the people" (when you follow the SENATE), then your definition of "right and wrong" WILL change over time, according to politics. you take your "morality" from the ever-changing whims of Politics. from the popular vote of corrupt individuals. you let these corrupt individuals "guide your actions".
BUT when you follow the "will of the Force" then your definition of "Right and Wrong" will remain constant. you take your "morality" from a Higher Power. this leads to Immortality. (aka: Qui-Gon's Path: follow the will of the force). like a true religion.
consider: a thousand years ago, we sacrificed Virgins to make the crops grow. we thought it was for the GOOD of all society. now that same society would consider that same action to be EVIL.
Our Morality has changed over the ages, according to fashion and politics. the very definition of Right and Wrong has changed. and this was driven by reason. (cool beans).
BUT : what happens when the changes are driven by FEAR, instead of reason? what happens when the Will of the Democracy is corrupted by the Politics of Fear, and the entire senate is ruled by a Sith Lord? and "Fear" is being used to drive the People over the brink of War?
now the "will of the people" is calling for acts of War : for acts of "Evil". (in the name of the Common "Good").
this is the problem with Dynamic Morality. there is NO BALANCE. it can be Driven by anger and fear, AS WELL AS reason and logic. it could 'tip' either way. its not "grounded" in anything. it wobbles all over the place.
--> by following this system of Dynamic Morality, (by using the "will of the people" as the definition of right and wrong), the Jedi eventually wound up fighting a never-ending War for national security driven by the people's Fear. (sound familiar?)
--> but a system of Static morality (Morals which remain constant regardless of politics) can not be overturned by fear + anger, and a popular vote. it can't be bent by some kind of "patriot act".
in the opera scene, anakin spells it out : the Jedi take their Morality from democracy. they define "Good" as the Common Good; and Evil as "selfishness". anything that "helps others" is considered GOOD. acting out the "Will of the People" is considered Good. the definition of "Good" comes from politics and the popular vote. they worship "the vote" as the source of their morality. they worship democracy. (the jedi are concerned with the Needs of the Many -- they reference the needs of the species as a whole, to determine what is "good" for Man).
meanwhile the Sith take their morality from selfishness. they reference the needs of a Single Man, to determine what is "good" for Man. they act out the Will of the Individual. not the Will of the People. (they are concerned with the needs of the Few, or the One).
and THIS is presented as the difference between "Good" and "Evil", in the star wars universe.
Lucas is trying to tell us, in typical ham-fisted fashion, that there is a third path : to take your morality from a Higher Power. like a christian takes morality from the bible. to accept the "will" of the being who granted you the 'Freewill' in the first place. to, in fact, USE your freewill, to enact the Will of this being - this leads to immortality.
((to USE the force, to enact the will of the force -- Qui-Gon's singular Mantra as a character -- and again, the path to immortality)). this brings balance to the force.
consider: its the end of the world. there is no food. the Will of the People has declared that there will be NO HOARDING. and thus, everybody dies: eventually the world runs out of food and we ALL die equally. the human race ENDS forever, and we become EXTINCT as a species. [/Jedi]
meanwhile: the Will of the Selfish Individual has him hoarding food for ONLY himself and his family. he defends his HOARD with a shotgun. and thus, humanity survives. eventually his family re-populates the planet and the human race is spared from extinction. [/Sith]
---> which path is "good" and which path is "evil" !??
((meanwhile: there is a third path: some old guy with a beard builds a boat and fills it with animals, 2 of each kind, because he had a 'vision' in a dream. he does what he's told, even though he would rather just hoard food like a typical Sith. and ALL the species of the earth are now spared from extinction; NOT just "humans"))
((this is the path that the Jedi Knights are SUPPOSED to take: "follow the will of the force" -- but they can't. because their Order is directly tied to the Senate -- they are part of the problem))
which brings us back to this idea of Separation of Church and State.
in order for the jedi order to "follow the will of the force" again (and thus bring balance to the force), they need to divorce themselves from the senate.
the relationship between church and state has to be severed.
for the sake of the CHURCH (lest the church lose its moral compass, and thus, its moral authority).
((in fact, for the sake of the "Force", which spawned the Chosen One as an act of self-defense: to wipe out ALL force-users NOT following the will of the force, and thus, bring balance to the force))
here, I would have MUCH prefered to see the jedi order RESISTING this relationship between church-and-State, to the point where they had to be exterminated by the very army that was meant to replace them (like the movie, "last samurai").
instead GL gives us the relationship between the jedi and the senate as being already established (for a thousand years): the jedi are, essentially, already lost (a thoudans years ago). they have already stopped following the will of the force. and so we have NO reference of the jedi in their Glory. no glimpse of the way things 'should be'. no image of the jedi as ever being purely "Good". no depiction, in the Films, of the jedi EVER following the "will of the force".
all that stuff that Old Alec Guiness said about the jedi (which had us all staring doe-eyed at the screen) was never depicted.
instead we got to see what the jedi became, only AFTER they stopped following their own god. only AFTER they were already doomed-by-politics
in he end, "balance" was restored when the force-spawned chosen-one has wiped out ALL force-users who refused to "follow the will of the force". (including palpatine AND the younglings in the temple).
when ALL future jedi (like luke skywalker) were free to follow the will of the force again: luke is taught: "Let go your conscious self" and "Let the Force Guide your actions"
( aka: "use the force , to enact the will of the force : this brings balance to the force") hehe
-=========- -=========- -=========-
LOOOONG story short: jar jar is needed to tell this tale. just as much as dooku.
jar jar is to padme, as dooku is to Qui-gon.
jar jar and dooku ONLY EXIST to reveal the slippery slopes of Our Heroes' positions from TPM.
--> the fact that he's an IDIOT is part of the PLOT!
I loathe jar jar. I think he is nothing but a pandering unfunny and annoying way for Lucas to sell his soul for merchandising. The character and the race as a whole was unneeded and my biggest anger is that we don't get to see gungen genocide in the movies.
Post by Ani-Chay Pinn on Jul 17, 2013 19:14:16 GMT -5
I've always thought that Jar Jar would have been only half as annoying if his voice had just been an octave lower. Or if one of the other Gungans had been in Jar Jar's place. The older guard would have been interesting.