|
Post by Xana on Oct 23, 2006 0:47:11 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by nassik on Oct 23, 2006 2:33:19 GMT -5
chuckles... As you wish. This second banner is a rather involved piece of work and I sincerely hope that it wasn't seen as intimidating. I expected a reaction such as this, unfortunate and saddening though it may be. The use of the Jedi council floor art is taboo? That is unexpected. Sounds like trying to copyright a floor tile pattern from my kitchen. I did not know that a variation on this theme was in direct violation of TJA code and perhaps copyright as well. There is no viable excuse for ignorance and as such I will not attempt to offer one. I swapped out the colors of the pattern and modified it in order to keep things different. In writing we call this practice paraphrasing and it is a viable and legal practice. It is from my knowledge and experience with this that led me to create the banner as I did. The point of that exercise was to create something that non-TJA members could use to mark their affiliation with the TJA through the message boards. And yet it was specificly different enough that it would not be taken as an "official" banner. I truly hope that I am not misinterpreting this response and that the attitude of the TJA is not so elitist as to exclude the numerous people that contribute to and frequent its message boards. Had I so desired I could easily have created an official TJA banner that would have been indistinguishable from the "official" version and that would have been far simpler to create. I utilized different fonts and colorations to make the distinction readily apparent. Don't get caught up in the distinction between Light Jedi and Grey Jedi. It's merely a matter of attitude. After all, Qui-Gon Jinn was considered a Grey Jedi for his maverick attitudes and views and yet no one will dispute that he was a Jedi of great rapor. And since his character was utilized in The Phantom Menace he is as much a Jedi as either Yoda or Obi-Wan Kenobi. Neither was I asking for official recognition of Grey Jedi within the TJA. Not even the actual Jedi Order recognized Grey Jedi. It is a loosely used term to identify those within the Order that are Jedi in every respect and that simply see things from a different point of view. After all, parallel paths are neither better or worse from one another, they are simply different ways of arriving at the same destination. In this light it is an easily made association that non-TJA members that frequent the message boards could be considered a form of Grey Jedi. For I truly hope that the TJA would not exclude all Jedi costumers from utilizing the term "Jedi" simply because they do not formally belong to the TJA or because they have not met all of the requirements set forth for TJA membership. If the term "Jedi" is so restricted are all non-TJA costumers relegated to use the term "Space Knight?" It doesn't have quite the same ring to it. Lest there be any confusion, I truly do understand the position and attitude of the TJA. The TJA has set rules, regulations, and copyright(s) that it uses to identify itself and these are intended to preserve the character and reputation of the TJA. Often times questions or suggestions presented to the TJA are interpretted as attempts at the deterioration of the TJA's standards and as such they are ill-received. Permit me an observation, if you will. Various policies and attitudes of the TJA come across as elitist and condescending to non-TJA members. This is not intended as a slight and I am sure that the members of the TJA do not see this perspective. After all, many times in life we are all too close to certain situations to see the broader view of things. Questions and suggestions from non-TJA members are met with staunch opposition and condescending retort, the latest incidence of such having resulted in a prospective future member turning away from this organization. My own attempt at a signature banner was intended as a compliment to the TJA and to give the organization a manner in which to associate its forum-only members with the group in an unofficial capacity. This was an attempt to strengthen the Jedi costuming community and it was not intended to be used as a wedge to further divide and delineate it. I had hoped to make a positive contribution to our community and to strengthen the TJA through my efforts. Instead I find myself sorely disappointed. It may be worth considering to make my banner, or a variation of it, an "official" unofficial signature banner that could be made available to non-TJA members after, say, 100 posts. A number such as this would demonstrate an acceptable level of commitment to the TJA and would give non-members an association to the group despite lacking an official membership. The point being, of course, to strengthen the Jedi costuming community and to bolster the image of the TJA.
|
|
|
Post by Leda EmBorr on Oct 23, 2006 3:02:05 GMT -5
Of course you expected a reaction such as this. You were waiting all day for it.
It seems that many things have not been satisfactory for you here. You have mentioned your disappointment several times.
I'm not going to debate all the finer points of copyright with you. Common sense and courtesy should fill you in. If you read our code as it is posted on the main website and here on the message board, you would have seen the part where is says not to mess with the logo.
Like I said, and the council agreed, the first banner you did was fine, and reflected your persona nicely.
Sorry you think we're being elitist and condescending... but that has been your impression from the get-go, has it not?
|
|
|
Post by nassik on Oct 23, 2006 4:13:25 GMT -5
I do not think that the TJA is elitist and condescending. Had that been my personal view I would have said so directly. I took great pains to present my argument from a detached and impersonal point of view in the hopes that such a perspective would contribute to the TJA's knowledge of itself so that it may better itself. Please do not take offense when no such thing was intended. I possess a degree in English and so I put a great deal of thought and organization in my writing so that my thoughts are clear and my words inoffensive. In truth, I had finished the creation of that banner within moments of posting it. I was not trying to offend the TJA and though I expected a negative reaction toward it I had hoped, rather, for a positive one. If my desire had been to ignite the ire of the TJA I would not have complied so very quickly and removed the banner. I am, at the moment, a digital arts student and so the banner was as much practice for me as it was a reflection of my love for the Jedi. And, in fact, I offer it up for consideration for official use by the TJA and its official members. I have expressed dissatisfaction with the TJA on two, and only two, counts. If my experience had been so traumatic I would have withdrawn from these message boards silently. I am not prone to fighting or extended arguing and any point that I have ever brought up has been solely for the sake of understanding, I assure you. I implore your understanding if nothing else. I did not know that my efforts were in violation of copyright and, upon my discovery of such, I brought that point to light in my response. And, as was previously noted, the offensive material was immediately removed. I, like most people, haven't read the entirety of the TJA's code and I doubt that we ever will. Unfortunately, we discover its finer points through mishap and error and we come to a fuller understanding through our missteps. I mean no offense or insult in the following example. I am merely attempting to illuminate and educate. My reference to elitist thought and condescension can be seen in the above response. I assure you most vehemently that I use this example in the most abstract of senses and intend offense towards no one.
"Of course you expected a reaction such as this. You were waiting all day for it. I could see that easily."
As the offensive banner was posted within minutes of its completion I could not have waited all day for a response or reaction. I was rather anxious to share my accomplishment with the TJA and so I posted it immediately, hoping for appreciation of my efforts and the recognition of my peers. And lastly...
"I'm not going to debate all the finer points of copyright with you. Common sense and courtesy should fill you in."
Unfortunately, any reference to common sense is insulting to the recipient of any such comment. I refer not only to myself, but to the populace in general. My responses and comments are painstakingly crafted to be courteous as well as understanding. Prior to my creation of the offensive banner I had no knowledge whatsoever of possible copyright infringment. And, as has been doubley noted, the offensive banner was removed immediately upon such discovery. I understand that the above response is fueled in part by emotion and indignation and as such allowances are to be made for hurt feelings. These are the precise comments that convey the erroneous depictions of the TJA. This was the only point that I was attempting to make when I made reference to elitist thought and condescension. Somehow, through no effort of my own, my words and thoughts are being interpretted in a most negative and distasteful fashion. Perhaps my vocabulary is too varied or my diction too precise. My sole intention is to spark meaningful and intelligent conversation free from the clinging threads of emotion and misinterpretation. I seek to form ties in a community that has held my love and fascination over the span of years and I hope to cement friendships among those whose interests are the same as my own. I am an artist, in both image and word, and my works reflect that. Whether it be a banner or a message post I thrive in its crafting and I delight in the sculpting of sight and sound. I am not prone to controversy and I do not wish to foment discord. I adore and appreciate a respectful conversation and I hope to inspire others to think as I hope that they will inspire me. And finally, there is no need to offer up any sort of apology...
" Sorry you think we're being elitist and condescending."
There is never any need to apologize for something that a person feels strongly about. People, and I refer to no one in particular, use the word "sorry" so very often that it has lost a great deal of its meaning. And so the above apology is not accepted. Not because I devalue the writer's words and opinions, but because I respect her feelings and I understand her point of view. There is nothing to apologize for and I value the simple honesty far more than a muttered apology. I respectfully accept your opinion and I thank you for your thoughts.
|
|
|
Post by Leda EmBorr on Oct 23, 2006 6:26:47 GMT -5
All we asked here is for you to simply use the first banner instead of the second one. Please don't put words into our mouths.
|
|
|
Post by admin on Oct 23, 2006 7:24:38 GMT -5
Ok...sorry I have been away folks. Darth Real-life, job and my family has had illness this week. Now onto the finer points of this thread. I have always appreciated opinions and suggestions given by any and everyone. Some are used and some are not used. But the big overwhelming idea about this COSTUMING group is just that- we are a COSTUMING group. The emphasis in our organization is upon articles of cloth, leather, plastic and metal with a good dose of imagination and creativity in our workmanship. Everything else is just added fun. We have got to stop taking everything so seriously and stop bringing into conversations on this board about the intricacies of character expository and permeations on Jedi lore and the like except where appropriate. Things like banners and colors used on the boards and pictures shown are all nice and good and they make for great atmosphere, but lest we forget- we are here for Jedi costuming and the love of Star Wars..a very fictional movie. I remember a line from an above posting saying that the Jedi Code had not wholly been read thru and I find that unfortunate because I would think that any serious member or non member of this group would have taken the time to understand ALL facets of this groups rules and regulations. I really don't want any animosity going any further. I ask that we move on. Permission has been given for the first banner. Thank you.
|
|
|
Post by Jan-Qui Coran on Jan 9, 2007 22:46:09 GMT -5
***bows*** Greetings to the Jedi Council, I was asked by someone who is interested in possibly making some Star Wars jewelry. I told her the problem was I wasn't exactly sure what was copy righted. I know the name Jedi is copyrighted so she knows that is out. She was wondering about lightsabers(for example making something that looks like a lightsaber, Jedi crest, stormtrooper)--if they were copywrited. Or is it any or all words that are used in the Star Wars universe? She was even thinking of using the words Star Wars itself. I'm not sure what to tell her. Or how she can go about making something that people might want to wear that would be Star Wars related. Is there any kind of picture she could use that would be ok to make something. I told her I would ask the council for their advise on this matter. I know some of this has been discussed in the past. I'm not sure where I'd find the information. Thank you. MTFBWY ***bows***
|
|
|
Post by Xana on Jan 10, 2007 1:07:29 GMT -5
Hmmm.............. making anything that is uniquely Star Wars and selling it to others for a profit is risky. Such as "Star Wars", "Jedi", specific lightsaber replicas, the imperial, rebel, old republic, NJO logos, etc. To make anything with those words or symbols on them and selling them for profit is not a good idea. But if she wanted to make, say, stationary with the rebel logo on it and mail to her Aunt Sally with a letter typed on it, no one will say boo. Unless Aunt Sally works for LFL and bought the piece of paper for $5. Make sense? I'd say your friend is risking it. It's probably not a good idea to make that kind of jewlery unless LFL allows her to.
|
|
|
Post by Leda EmBorr on Jan 10, 2007 1:34:10 GMT -5
If she wants to make a little fancy flashlight on a chain around her neck... no problem... just don't call it a lightsaber or relate it to star wars.
Something that looks like a lightsaber... well, laser swords are in many things... cartoons, video games, and they are not star wars. But "Lightsaber" is copyrighted, so it would not be wise to use that term for the item.
You can tell her that if something... an object or a word, or a character/species, is unique to star wars... then you can assume that it's copyrighted.
But if she is making it for herself only, that's different.
|
|
|
Post by Jan-Qui Coran on Jan 10, 2007 13:10:37 GMT -5
***bow*** Thank you so much for the info. I will inform her of this information. The other question that may come up would be: Could she make something & send it into LFL for permission if she wanted to do it for selling it or something else? I did mention to her that she might have to get permission from Lucas, but wasn't totally sure on that. I didn't know if the permissions could be gotten by anybody besides the clubs or any individual could seek permission to do something like this. I just need clarification of this so I can explain it to her clearly.
|
|
|
Post by Olos Nay on Jan 10, 2007 13:56:35 GMT -5
"getting permission from LFL" would mean "purchasing a liscence" and it has its price. On the other hand, besides the lightsabers in the movies, the "laser sword" of any form isn't copyrighted LFL. I already mentionned it elsewhere on this board, but the concept of a blade of light had been around before star wars. I believe the first mention of such weapon to be in some 1930's scifi from Edmond Hamilton.
Therefore, while not being to make a "lightsaber" or "lightsabre" (correct spelling) because the term belongs to LFL, anyone can make a flashlight or futuristic sword.
However, using terms of the SW universe needs permission, and this permission has a price.
NOW... if you make something for yourself as a fan, and if you want to make money out of it, its a totally different story. Any fan can make SW related items. Copyrights and liscence enfringments comes when you make a business out of it. Technically, if LFL is loosing money because you sell some SW items without them having their part, then its wrong. Otherwise, there's no prob.
|
|
|
Post by Jan-Qui Coran on Jan 10, 2007 22:24:08 GMT -5
Thank you. I will give the information to the person who was interested. ***bows***
|
|
|
Post by Leda EmBorr on Jan 11, 2007 21:02:58 GMT -5
I would tell your friend to contact a copyright attorney on the matter. We are all novices here, and the laws can be tricky. I'm sure there are specific laws governing different types of usages of the copyrighted/trademarked material.
If your friend is serious about this, she should consult a professional. Don't just take our word for it.
|
|
|
Post by Jarren Landcaster on Feb 13, 2007 17:40:57 GMT -5
(bows) Greetings council. I've come to ask that my profile be changed from a green saber to a silver blade. I have a pic on my profile and can post one here for you to see. I have come to this request for I know purple has meaning as wisdom and courage, but silver come to find out has those but also indominal spirit, edicate, perservirance, and has the up most emotional content, or self control. I wish to move more towards a jedi chronicler , working with any historians, as Jedi Dorak, Atris, or "the disciple" in the KOTOR games. The saber is and Ultra Saber and if Silver isn't good for your choosing, I can always change the crystal to yellow.
|
|
|
Post by Leda EmBorr on Feb 13, 2007 18:45:48 GMT -5
Yes, a silver blade is an accepted color. You can change it in by logging into the main site and just editing the saber color in your profile. I like the blade conversion!
|
|