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Post by Ldi-Ovef Te_Azi on Apr 17, 2006 12:13:54 GMT -5
so i was thinking about count dooku and his relation in the movies. we all knew he was the leader of the seperatist faction, and yes he was a sith lord, but maybe his motivation for all of this was not power or evil, maybe it was for good.
Look at the corruption in the senate, maybe dooku was one of the few people who saw it for what it truly was. the jedi were also in a place of power and were growing complacent with this. the jedi sided with the republic, thus if the count wanted to change anything he could not go to the jedi for they would have sided against him.
The sith are outside the system, and to change everything in history, wasn't it mostly done by factions that were resisting the structured government.
examples:
1)colonies didnt like the way the british were ruling them and they wanted freedom, so they took it
2)same example with the french revolution
3)the hippies protesting against the draft
the most influential people were not within the system, so maybe dooku turned to the dark side not for power, but for influence to weed out the corruption in the republic. he was using the sith and the seperatists to his own end, to save the republic.
i dont know, its just my thoughts on this. i think count dooku was better than he was made out to seem. maybe dooku wasnt so bad, just misunderstood.
tell me what you guys think about this, i was just wondering.
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Solinbeb Newau
Message Board Member
There are many ways to learn the ways of the Force, but only those who have joined it may know best.
Posts: 1,181
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Post by Solinbeb Newau on Apr 17, 2006 22:56:36 GMT -5
The difference between a plotting villian and a heroic villian...their motivation.
Afterall, it could be said that Palpatine did whatever was in his power to unify the galaxy...for the greater good of the galaxy...and just happened to be a Sith.
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Post by kivaanzion on Apr 17, 2006 23:53:23 GMT -5
the most influential people were not within the system, so maybe dooku turned to the dark side not for power, but for influence to weed out the corruption in the republic. he was using the sith and the seperatists to his own end, to save the republic.
i dont know, its just my thoughts on this. i think count dooku was better than he was made out to seem. maybe dooku wasnt so bad, just misunderstood. Hardly. Dooku was evil. He sided with by far the most evil of all characters in the Star Wars universe- Palpatine. He had an ulterior motive of eventually overthrowing Palpatine, becoming the Sith Master himself (and most likely control of the Republic, or the Separatists- whichever won the war). He attempted (not very well) to encourage Obi-Wan to "Join him" and defeat the Sith lord. Not for the good of the galaxy, but for his own benefit. You want to take an example from history? How about Adolf Hitler? Easily the most evil man of the 20th Century. Let's look at his motivations- Germany was in ruins after World War I. Aside from taking blame for the war, Germany was to pay retribution for the damage caused to all countries involved (creating a massive debt which it could not recover from). Germany's army (which Hitler served in) had been greatly reduced in numbers- they were not allowed tanks, or an air force. Germany would be virtually defenseless should a neighbouring country wish to invade. By the early 1930s Germany was suffering from the Depression greater than most countries of the world. Germany's people were starving in the streets, with unemployment in the millions. Hitler felt that the oppression of the League of Nations and the peace Treaty of Versailles was killing Germany. So, once in power, he went against the peace treaty rebuilding Germany's army. Eventually he began expanding his borders invading Poland and France, igniting World War II. The rest is history. Hitler wanted what he felt was best for his homeland- to get Germany out of the Depression, to make its borders secure, and its people safe. But the execution of his motivations proved him to be pure evil. Dooku was no different. He just seemed more charismatic. |
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Post by Ldi-Ovef Te_Azi on Apr 18, 2006 0:06:14 GMT -5
actually i dont think that hitler's motivation was evil, but the fact that it was based off of the fact that he was a pshychopath. he had a doctor injecting him with various drugs, putting him through various addictions. not only that he had parkinsons desease, which eroded his mine. im not entirly sure that adolph hitler even knew what he was doing, he was too mentally ill and that is what led to all his atrocoties. so not exactly the best example in the world.
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Post by kivaanzion on Apr 18, 2006 13:07:47 GMT -5
so not exactly the best example in the world. Well that was kind of the point of my post (and I apologize if it came off sounding too strong). Although I understand what you say about his addiction to drugs and Parkinson's disease (Hitler suffered from several mentally debilitating diseases), I don't believe however that a person comes into power of a nation, and orchestrates one of the most destructive wars in the last 100 years by being completely mentally incompetent. Really my point was that Dooku's character was actually very charismatic- he was always well spoken, almost polite while fighting Obi-Wan and Yoda. It could be easy to mistake his actions as being done for the good of the Republic (just as the people of Germany listened to Hitler believing it was all being done in the best interests of the country). But Dooku's motivations were all self-centered. I don't believe that he truly cared for the Republic- joining Palpatine would be a means to an end of his lust for power. In fact his worst quality is that he believed he could get away with it- how could he not see that Palpatine would have him killed the moment he discovered Dooku's betrayal? |
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Post by tanzanlinnear on Apr 18, 2006 13:33:32 GMT -5
I don't believe however that a person comes into power of a nation, and orchestrates one of the most destructive wars in the last 100 years by being completely mentally incompetent. Let's not also forget that although was Hitler not German, he had been decorated for bravery in the German Army during the First World War, so that, like Dooku's past as a Jedi, no doubt stood him in good stead. Really my point was that Dooku's character was actually very charismatic- he was always well spoken, almost polite while fighting Obi-Wan and Yoda. As was Hitler. I don't think there have been many national leaders with such powers of oration as he had. |
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Post by admin on Apr 18, 2006 13:51:53 GMT -5
An orator of madness...
But anyway...this is a conversation about fictional characters.
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Post by tanzanlinnear on Apr 18, 2006 14:02:25 GMT -5
An orator of madness... But anyway...this is a conversation about fictional characters. Don't get me wrong, I have no love for Hitler after the amount of my relatives he sent to the gas chambers, I was simply agreeing with and illustrating the comparisons made between Hitler and Dooku. |
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Post by Ldi-Ovef Te_Azi on Apr 18, 2006 15:09:19 GMT -5
i know they are fictional master jorlac, i also was just curious what you all thought about the motivation behind the character. i know george lucas only made him that way to further his storyline, but i was just liking the thought of count dooku being a deeper character than lucas's story. i just like to extrapolate silly things for lack of anything better to put my mind towards, due to the fact that there is very little in this world that stimulates my imagination. star wars happens to be one of them.
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Post by jedi12 on Apr 18, 2006 15:10:49 GMT -5
I agree with Ki Vaan and Tanthos
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Post by kivaanzion on Apr 18, 2006 18:22:09 GMT -5
Indeed. And I don't want to turn this into a discussion of Hitler- But there is something about leaders who are madmen and how they are able to mask their madness and terrible intentions until it is far too late. Sometimes they are very upfront with their intentions but are somehow able to whip the masses into a frenzy- agreeing with the madness. Of course in the Star Wars universe, Palpatine is the best example of this. |
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Post by tanzanlinnear on Apr 18, 2006 18:59:54 GMT -5
Indeed. And I don't want to turn this into a discussion of Hitler- But there is something about leaders who are madmen and how they are able to mask their madness and terrible intentions until it is far too late. Sometimes they are very upfront with their intentions but are somehow able to whip the masses into a frenzy- agreeing with the madness. Of course in the Star Wars universe, Palpatine is the best example of this. Which was precicely what I was agreeing with, although I felt Dooku fit the profile better than Palpatine, in that having been a Jedi, he had that 'respectability' as well as his familial title, and people were swayed by his powers of persuasion rather than through force (no pun intended) |
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Post by The Lost Skywalker on Apr 18, 2006 19:27:10 GMT -5
Actually, Dooku's motivations, in canon, was to destroy the Sith from within. He believed that the Jedi Chosen One would be a learned, well experienced, seasoned scholar type, and that he, in his mind, fit the bill. He felt to destroy the Sith, he had to know how they thought and what their weaknesses were. The problem was that the further he dove into it, the harder it was to pull out...
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Post by Ldi-Ovef Te_Azi on Apr 18, 2006 23:29:31 GMT -5
hmmm, where did this come from, novels?
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Post by kivaanzion on Apr 19, 2006 7:40:34 GMT -5
I would like to know as well. Was this from the AOTC novelization? I'm a total purist when it comes to the Star Wars universe- I don't read any of the EU at all. For me, if it didn't happen in the films- it isn't canon. In fact the only EU that I really got into was the DF: Jedi Knight and Jedi Academy PC games (which I thoroughly enjoyed  ). |
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