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Post by Ani-Chay Pinn on May 27, 2005 15:31:59 GMT -5
It seems to me that Anakin's defining the Jedi as evil rested a lot on his opinion that he felt that they were holding him back from the power that he decided that he needed. Saving Padme, in the end, was just an excuse. When Padme and his goal of power came into conflict he chose power without even thinking about it.
I find it amusing that Obi-Wan's "point-of-view" still contained a whole lot more truth than Luke had gotten for his entire life. Basically, Obi-Wan gave Luke the pre-Vader version of his father. But he neglected to mention that Vader's murder of his father was strictly metaphorical. But still, it's much closer to the facts than the "navigator on a spice freighter" line that Luke got from his aunt and uncle.
And there is absolutely NO WAY that Owen and Beru should have ever told Luke about his father being a Jedi. Telling him nothing would have only caused more questions, so it was best to give him a convncing story. Just imagine telling a child that his father was a Jedi and see how many stormtroopers show up at the homestead after the first time he blurts that out to his friends. Well, the stormtroopers showed up on the doorstep eventually anyway, but not until Luke had a chance to grow up.
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Aayla
Message Board Member
'excitement, Adventure jedi craves not these things'
Posts: 192
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Post by Aayla on May 28, 2005 15:38:10 GMT -5
AHHHHHHH lol sorry all those from a point of view things started to make my head spin lol EEEk
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Post by Ani-Chay Pinn on May 29, 2005 0:18:54 GMT -5
Y'know it's just occured to me that we've spent much bandwidth about how Luke was lied to, but not spared a word about LEIA being lied to as well.
Now, Bail Organa had even more reason to not tell Leia about her father, since she could literally run into him anytime in the Senate. But she had no idea that her mission to retrieve Obi-Wan from Tatooine also possibly meant picking up her brother as well. I assume that Bail had that in mind when he sent for Kenobi. Or possibly bringing Obi-Wan there to train Leia. With the Death Star finally built, I assume they didn't think they had any more time left for waiting.
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Post by kivaanzion on May 29, 2005 9:21:50 GMT -5
Not telling Leia was definitely for her own protection. As the leader of the Alliance, Leia would face many difficult decisions and would have to overcome them with single-mindedness: the Empire must be defeated at all costs. Telling her the truth could quite possibly have created a conflict of interest within her. Could she destroy her own Father? Luke couldn't (which was the right course of action). I'm sure Bail hid the truth for the same reasons Obi-Wan and Yoda hid the truth from Luke: Vader (and the Empire) must be destroyed, and the only two people capable of doing it must not be blinded by the fact that he is their Father. Moreso if Leia knew the truth, her thoughts would betray her in Vader's presence- Vader would sense that she was his daughter. (I guess Vader's "Force sense" was on the fritz when he was torturing Leia aboard the Death Star ).
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Post by Qual Totem on Jun 4, 2005 17:52:35 GMT -5
or maybe Vaders just sexist and didn't care
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Post by himiko sabbrawrra on Jun 8, 2005 23:28:18 GMT -5
Well think about it..Luke also wanted to join the academy.. Now if he did the name Skywalker isn't all that common.. I believe Vader would have found Luke that way too and things could have gone wrong.. I don't doubt that Owen knew that much by trying to keep Luke home and "safe" but as yoda said.. the living force will tell them when it is time for them to fufill their destiny.
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Solinbeb Newau
Message Board Member
There are many ways to learn the ways of the Force, but only those who have joined it may know best.
Posts: 1,181
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Post by Solinbeb Newau on Jun 9, 2005 7:57:41 GMT -5
Y'know it's just occured to me that we've spent much bandwidth about how Luke was lied to, but not spared a word about LEIA being lied to as well.
Now, Bail Organa had even more reason to not tell Leia about her father, since she could literally run into him anytime in the Senate. But she had no idea that her mission to retrieve Obi-Wan from Tatooine also possibly meant picking up her brother as well. I assume that Bail had that in mind when he sent for Kenobi. Or possibly bringing Obi-Wan there to train Leia. With the Death Star finally built, I assume they didn't think they had any more time left for waiting.
Well, Leia was adopted by loving parents and probably never knew anything to say that Bail wasn't really her father. Leia got her adopted parent's name Organa....but we don't see Luke Lars, we see Luke Skywalker.
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Post by Cem-Ji Pobroo on Jun 9, 2005 17:57:47 GMT -5
I don't think Vader's "Force Sense" was on the fritz when Leia was on board the Death star. If she wasn't using it (since she didn't know she had it), then Vader couldn't have picked up on it. Right? Otherwise he wouldn't have hurt Daddy's lil' girl:)
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Post by himiko sabbrawrra on Jun 18, 2005 15:24:31 GMT -5
i still wonder about that.. why didnt vader sense Leia as his kid?? was it bcause she had no jedi training or not as much force as Luke?
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Post by lazlototh on Jun 19, 2005 13:51:01 GMT -5
I believe it was more narrative necessity that Vader didn't sense Leia as his child - I thought that Lucas hadn't determined that Luke and Leia were twins until they were filming Return of the Jedi. So it may not have been determined that Leia was Force sensitive at all. SO Vader wouldn't sense anything.
Vader did sense that Luke had the Force with him during the Trench scene. But he didn't sense the Legendary Skywalker affinity for piloting... And we do know now, that it is likely the offspring he thought he had from Padme was killed when he was told by Palpatine that he killed her. So Vader wouldn't suspect Luke was his son till later (ESB)...
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Post by himiko sabbrawrra on Jun 19, 2005 13:55:21 GMT -5
I agree with that.. If a bunch of us saw a car crash and we were asked our descriptions on it we all would have a diffrent view of it....
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Aayla
Message Board Member
'excitement, Adventure jedi craves not these things'
Posts: 192
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Post by Aayla on Jun 26, 2005 8:46:25 GMT -5
and anyway going back to vaders force sense isnt it the way jedi and sith find out information like(whos a jedi,sith, who the person is, their feelings emotions towards themselves and other people) by he slip of the mind like at the end of rotj with vader finding out about liea by lukes slip of the mind if leia has no knowlege about vader being her father etc vader couldnt tell she was his daughter if he did look into her mind all he would see is organa knowlege
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Post by Starkindler (The Naked Jedi) on Jun 26, 2005 13:43:45 GMT -5
Luke and Ben started this thread so I'll chime in on that. Ben needed to lie to Luke for all the reasons stated....but Anakin WOULD have wanted Luke to have the saber. Ben knew Anakin well enough to know that. ALSO since he makes a POINT of taking Anakin's Saber after the fight (and because he already knew Padme was pregnant with their child) you can argue that Obi-Wan was responding to the prompting of the Unifying Force in doing so. The seeds of the fall of the Empire were sown with it's beginning strokes.
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Post by Qual Totem on Jun 26, 2005 23:19:54 GMT -5
id have to agree with aayla
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Post by firebrand on Jul 7, 2005 20:50:29 GMT -5
Point of view or not, you don't slay younglings and call yourself a goodie.
Ani KNOWS he's being an absolute villain. He's crying his eyes out on Mustafar. He KNOWS he's evil. Points of view are all very well and good to mull over but sometimes the truth is shades of grey with a giant border of black and white.
The Jedi are never evil, at their very worst a Sith could accuse them of being lazy, complacent, lacking in compassion, weak and unwilling to affect change.
It's the compassion thing that gets me. They spend so much effort trying to get Ani to crush down his feelings for padme and his mother, and look where it leads. It's like many world religions where the figureheads are required to be moral guardians also. they lose touch with the spark of humanity.
Even Yoda doesn't remember what it feels like to be awash with emotion, the very thing that makes us human. So when the Jedi start dying and Yoda falls reeling in shock at their pain it is a grave and sorrowful awakening for him. One that leads him to an exile wraught of a survivors guilt.
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