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Post by tanzanlinnear on Apr 22, 2006 8:26:17 GMT -5
I reviewed the scenes. By coincidence (?), the scene of Vader torturing Leia splices the scenes when Luke rushes home to find the farm in ruins and Owen and Beru dead. I watched ANH last night, and the scene does not splice into Luke's rush at all. It doesn't come until before he returns to meet Obi-Wan (which meant it happened after he rushed back) and says he wants to be a Jedi before they head to Mos-Eisley.
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Tolif Espen
Message Board Member
Greetings, Exalted Ones.
Posts: 42
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Post by Tolif Espen on Apr 22, 2006 8:54:04 GMT -5
I was speaking gernerally about the segment from "Wait Luke! It's too dangerous!" to "I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi like my father" and that Leia's torture is in the middle. They're next to each other, which I thought was interesting enough.
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Post by tanzanlinnear on Apr 22, 2006 9:16:43 GMT -5
Yes, the scene with Leia is in the middle of those two scenes, but, Luke did not suddenly experience some kind of pain like Yoda did during the execution of Order 66 or like Obi-Wan did following the destruction of Alderaan. He became agitated and upset when he realized what was happening to his Aunt and Uncle. Any upset he felt was when he arrived at the homestead (before the torture scene) and when he then returned to Obi-Wan and the droids, he was okay (although understandably upset by the loss of his relatives) It's simply a case of how the story was edited, I don't think it's possible to read any further meaning into it than that. For extra meaning, how about 3PO's line "How did we get into this? I really don't know..." and other such comments when he's in the oil bath. Knowing what had happened previously, it's clear that his memory is sketchy on some things (not surprizing as it was erased ) and Artoo definitely knows what's going on, such as the: R2 "whistles and warbles" 3PO "I don't think there are settlements that way." Artoo wasn't asking if there were, he was telling him there were settlements. Even Obi-Wan's description about what happened to Anakin is actually accurate, apart from the part about 'betrayed and murdered', other than that, everything he said was true.
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Tolif Espen
Message Board Member
Greetings, Exalted Ones.
Posts: 42
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Post by Tolif Espen on Apr 22, 2006 18:08:59 GMT -5
Exactly. Lines run two ways in the original trilogy. There are those like the Artoo-Threepio exchange you quoted where we know what Lucas's intentions were when he scripted/filmed it. Then there are those tangents that had no preconceived notions when filmed but thanks to our understanding of the full saga are fun to read into. This thread is based on that. I wanted to see where Luke was when Leia was being tortured... the Skywalker twins were finding out just how evil this Galactic Empire was at the same time. Obi-wan was accurate even with the "betrayed" part. Anakin betrayed himself, his morals, and his own future. The "murdered" part is the biggest stretch. Maybe the Jedi are Old World and declare that someone is "dead to them" like a daughter who marries outside the family faith. Obi-wan was fairly clear on this on Jedi, come to think of it. "He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. If I was Luke, I would have grilled old Ben right then and there on that log. "Okay, old man. Anything ELSE you've been talking about from a 'certain point of view'?!"
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Post by himiko sabbrawrra on Apr 30, 2006 8:26:54 GMT -5
Exactly. Lines run two ways in the original trilogy. There are those like the Artoo-Threepio exchange you quoted where we know what Lucas's intentions were when he scripted/filmed it. Then there are those tangents that had no preconceived notions when filmed but thanks to our understanding of the full saga are fun to read into. This thread is based on that. I wanted to see where Luke was when Leia was being tortured... the Skywalker twins were finding out just how evil this Galactic Empire was at the same time. Obi-wan was accurate even with the "betrayed" part. Anakin betrayed himself, his morals, and his own future. The "murdered" part is the biggest stretch. Maybe the Jedi are Old World and declare that someone is "dead to them" like a daughter who marries outside the family faith. Obi-wan was fairly clear on this on Jedi, come to think of it. "He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. If I was Luke, I would have grilled old Ben right then and there on that log. "Okay, old man. Anything ELSE you've been talking about from a 'certain point of view'?!" What I find interesting is the whole point-of-view from Obi-wan. If I was luke that would have been my retorte back to him. Now as for him being agitated to hurry home. I would se him as just worried sense the Jawa's were attacked and were the ones they got the droids from. Now as for the movies in general I just got done reading an article in Star Wars insider #86 and it had talked about the movies from 1977 and comparing them today. Such as how everything to some of the questions that were left blanks then and answered now.
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Post by Aston Jor-Cello on May 1, 2006 16:12:58 GMT -5
One thing I thought that was interesting about these particular scenes, is one in particular that was cut out of the original film, was in Obi-wan's hut after Luke tells Obi-wan that he can take him as far as Anchorhead and he could catch a transport to Mos Eisley with which Obi-wan replies that he must do what he feels right, in the novelization Luke says, "Well, right now I don't feel very good".
When I read that, a few things came to mind: 1. He could be feeling the impending doom that his Aunt and Uncle were about to experience or 2. He could feel Leia's impending torture aboard the Death Star. 3. Alderaan's demise. 4. Or he just didn't think that by not choosing to take Obi-wan to Mos Eisley, he wasn't sure if he was making the right decison for himself and the droids. What do you guys think?
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Post by kivaanzion on May 1, 2006 19:04:18 GMT -5
Hmmm... it would be pretty easy to read into that. I think he just felt overwhelmed by all that had just been revealed to him. Luke was pretty upset that Artoo had conned him into taking his restraining bolt off ("Boy am I gonna get it!")-Now he has to deal with being smack in the middle of the Alliance's fight against the Empire ("Boy am I really gonna get it!!"). It wouldn't surprise me if his stomach was doing flip-flops. When Alderaan was destroyed, Obi-Wan felt it (and I'm sure Yoda had a migraine as well on Dagobah)- but Luke seemed completely unaffected. But this is just what I think- I don't believe there is a right or wrong explanation. And it is a lot of fun reading between the lines.
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Tolif Espen
Message Board Member
Greetings, Exalted Ones.
Posts: 42
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Post by Tolif Espen on May 1, 2006 20:32:50 GMT -5
Bravo, Ki-Vaan! Reading between the lines can be fun and informative for fans, but taking it too seriously can be like staring into the Mirror of Erised in Hogwarts: some have wasted away in that pursuit. Reading between the lines is part of the lifeblood of a forum like this, and my original query was just that. Did Lucas plan these intricacies? Of course not. Only Tolkien does that. *lol* But he's presented us with such a rich universe that anything can be possible.
For example, I could completely agree that Luke's novelization line, "Well, right now I don't feel very good." should be taken at face value and then in the next breath hypothesize that Luke didn't sense Alderaan's demise because he was so focused in his training to see the remote. Both are simply opinions, conservative and speculative. I love it.
My speculative mind was put into hyperdrive at eight years old when I had to wait three darn years to see Return of the Jedi after Empire came out. Lordy was it fun to imagine what could possibly come next.
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Post by Starkindler (The Naked Jedi) on May 1, 2006 21:18:21 GMT -5
... Of course not. Only Tolkien does that. *lol* ... Heh heh. I am an avid Tolkien reader from the 7th grade when I found a copy of The Hobbit in the school library...still have it actually ... For example, I could completely agree that Luke's novelization line, "Well, right now I don't feel very good." should be taken at face value and then in the next breath hypothesize that Luke didn't sense Alderaan's demise because he was so focused in his training to see the remote. Both are simply opinions, conservative and speculative. I love it. I'd agree. Luke was focused on the here and now, a mere fledgling in Force Sensitivity, and likely still working out his Aunt and Uncle's murder. Not likely to be in tune with the subtleties of the Force. ... My speculative mind was put into hyperdrive at eight years old when I had to wait three darn years to see Return of the Jedi after Empire came out. Lordy was it fun to imagine what could possibly come next. I well remember the conversations in the schoolyard over whether or not Vader WAS Luke's father, if Han could be Force Sensitive, yadda, yadda.....
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Post by Kryy Jacobi on Dec 21, 2006 17:27:52 GMT -5
Heh heh. I am an avid Tolkien reader from the 7th grade when I found a copy of The Hobbit in the school library...still have it actually So Tenric, I imagine your library fine is pretty hefty by now. ;D Interesting thread! Yes, I remember all the speculation about whether Vader was telling the truth and who was "there is another"....
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Post by Drago Lørdist on Dec 29, 2006 16:26:33 GMT -5
I like to think of the force as the feeling you get when you have tunnel vision, if anyone's experienced it. You don't actually see a vision of things happening, but you rely solely on reflexes and your body reacts to things as if you had seen them. For me, it's completely the reverse. I can walk through a mall and be able to feel not only where everyone is within a certain radius, but also where they're going to move to, so I'm very adept at darting about in crowds, as I just 'fill the spaces' they leave. That said, 19 years of martial arts study and meditation will do that for you I walk through crowds with my eyes shut just to prove I can lmao it freaks my friends out. I almost look at it like a 3D map on a game - you see where the enemies are and where the civilians are. it's like seeing objects in water. when it came to the yuuzhan vong the water was pushed away but there was no visible object taking the place of it. like an air pocket.
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Post by jedividal030280 on Jan 17, 2007 13:51:37 GMT -5
i want to star a patision to get G.L. to redew star wars ep 4-5-6 with fresh actors and use the actors fromep 3. ( vader from ep 3 and obi from ep 3) we need better fight sceens and to show light saber traing. and plus a better fight between vader and obi and dont say an age thing dooku /sidious/yoda/ was old and they did very well. so you can drop your name and email for this patision it would make a big deal. you can reach me at luisramos_80@yahoo.com. or www.myspace.com/jedimastervidal. this patision is also for a ep 7-8-9 as well. we need to see other jedi and leia training to be a jedi and many more things. please get back to me jedi master vidal
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