Anakin or Luke

[Bel-Den Shaw]

okay this one spans the prequel and the original.

[Seda Navilli]

Anakin looks alot cooler... but I would have to say Luke.

This was a pretty hard decision for me. I favour the PT Jedi over the OT Jedi in almost every instance, but not this one. I really don't like the way Anakin comes across in the movies. I know that he is meant to be arrogant and brash, but that doesnt mean I have to like it

In both cases I liked the final versions of each character the most; rots Ani and rotj Luke, and thats essentially what my toss up was between. If Anakin had more high spirited scenes, like the start of RotS and when he was seeing Obi Wan off, then it would have swayed my opinion... but as it stands I like the calm confidence of Luke when he is a Jedi more than Anakin's charisma.

[tanzanlinnear]

I say Anakin. He never used his abilities against people that couldn't defend themselves against them, other than with a very good cause (the Tusken Raiders that killed his mother and Count Dooku) but Luke had a habit of using his abilities indiscriminately. Also, Anakin never had an unhealthy attraction to a family member

[kivaanzion]

tanzanlinnear said:

I say Anakin. He never used his abilities against people that couldn't defend themselves against them, other than with a very good cause (the Tusken Raiders that killed his mother and Count Dooku) but Luke had a habit of using his abilities indiscriminately. Also, Anakin never had an unhealthy attraction to a family member

Huh? Anakin openly admitted that killing the Tuskens was purely slaughter brought about by his own rage. The right (Jedi-like) thing to have done would have been to carry his mother's body over his shoulder, and Force push any Tuskens that got in his way until he could escape (had he not learned the Force run yet?). Killing every creature in the camp (including innocent women and children) was wrong- period. Killing some (or all) of them simply because "they killed his mother" is revenge. VERY un-Jedi.

You say Luke uses his power indiscriminately: where? He does use a Force choke on the Gamorrean guards (a rather Dark Side move) but honestly I don't see him running up and decapitating anyone who is retreating.

I realize that the "family member" comment was meant as a joke- but give them a break: they were separated at birth with no knowledge of one another.

I guess you also forgot that Anakin Force choked his defenseless wife. This is no different than an abusive husband striking his wife in a fit of rage. Nuff said.

Obviously I'm a Luke fan.

[Chris Ago-Ni]

I'm goin with Luke on this one because he was able to resist turning to the dark side when faced with a situation similar to Anakin.

[tanzanlinnear]

kivaanzion said:

Huh? Anakin openly admitted that killing the Tuskens was purely slaughter brought about by his own rage. The right (Jedi-like) thing to have done would have been to carry his mother's body over his shoulder, and Force push any Tuskens that got in his way until he could escape (had he not learned the Force run yet?). Killing every creature in the camp (including innocent women and children) was wrong- period. Killing some (or all) of them simply because "they killed his mother" is revenge. VERY un-Jedi.

You say Luke uses his power indiscriminately: where? He does use a Force choke on the Gamorrean guards (a rather Dark Side move) but honestly I don't see him running up and decapitating anyone who is retreating.

I realize that the "family member" comment was meant as a joke- but give them a break: they were separated at birth with no knowledge of one another.

I guess you also forgot that Anakin Force choked his defenseless wife. This is no different than an abusive husband striking his wife in a fit of rage. Nuff said.

Obviously I'm a Luke fan.

I admit, when he killed the Tusken Raiders, it certainly wasn't the Jedi thing to do, but, for someone with as much repressed anger as Anakin, it was an understandable thing for him to do. Anakin has always had a temper, even when he was young (which the deleted scene with Greedo in TPM would have really established) Don't forget how angry he was on Tattooine when Padme asked if he was a Slave, and then in ATOC when he was with Padme in her apartment, he lost his temper and started ranting about Obi-Wan. In all fairness, I think the only person that could possibly have properly trained Anakin to be a true Jedi was Qui-Gon.
As you say, Luke used the Force Choke on the guards. He then used the Jedi Mindtrick against Bib Fortuna.
On the skiff, he used his lightsaber against the guards, who, although armed with vibro-staffs, might as well have been unarmed, because there was no way they could defend themselves against a lightsaber.
I agree, that Anakin Force Choking Padme was despicable, but, by the point that happened, he had not only gone over to the Dark Side, but was probably still in 'The Zone' from killing the Seperatists (ie snapped at someone who didn't deserve it because they did something while he was still at angry at something else) When he thought she had betrayed him to Obi-Wan, that is precicely the kind of uncontrolled anger he tended to exibit. However, I would say it was more like a lover's spat than an abusive husband. Let's not forget, although married, they didn't exactly live together. Long Distance relationships are often more tempestuous than every day ones because of the stress of the distance. If you watch closely, just before Padme first told Anakin she's pregnant, you could hear the anger in his voice, and he looked as if he was about to hit her. Then (clearly distrusting the child to be his) he spent eight seconds (an eternity in screentime) struggling with his emotions, until he swallowed his rage and then said it was a happy moment. I felt he was telling himself that as much as he was telling Padme. He started crying after maiming Master Windu and realizing that he was responsible for his death, and then shed a tear on Mustafar after killing the Seperatists, showing that he regretted his actions, but was doing them for a 'higher purpose' The kind of actions that make Good and Evil irrelevent concepts. Even with the tantrum where he Force-Choked Padme (which he clearly regretted after being reconstructed) I don't think he once acted in anger that wasn't somehow connected to very deep love. I guess what I'm trying to say is he wasn't violent and angry simply for the sake of violence and anger. Anakin's problem has always been his temper. He was essentially a very good person who only wanted the best for his friends and family, but had no control over a terribly violent temper, and it took him another twenty years to start to master it. I see that more as a truly tragic flaw than something to condemn him with. Part of the reason I empathise with Anakin so much is that when I was younger, I had an equally violent temper, and it wasn't until I was thirteen and I finally understood the spiritual aspects of my martial arts training, that I learned to control it. Another thirteen years on, I am pretty much the embodiment of Jedi serenity, but my temper is still there (albeit controlled and properly channeled) That said, I know that if anyone was ever to harm my fiance or her younger step-sister (who I love like a little sister) I know I wouldn't be able to control myself. I've learned a lot, but I know I still have more to learn.

chrisagony said:

I'm goin with Luke on this one because he was able to resist turning to the dark side when faced with a situation similar to Anakin.

To be fair to Anakin, Luke's situation wasn't anything similar. He was just threatened with the death of his friends. (and they were in situations that they got themselves out of without his help anyway)
Anakin was trying to save the lives of not only his wife, but also his unborn child (he didn't know she was carrying twins)

[Cara Drume]

I don't know...
Luke was the catalyst in turning Anakin back...
But it was Anakin's choice to turn back...

Anakin was clearly more skilled...
But Luke learned to control his abilities much sooner...

Anakin was trained late...
But Luke was trained even later!

I don't think I'll be able to decide right now without weighing father and son against each other.

I need to think about this!

I only wonder; if Luke had known what Anakin did to Padme', would he still have wanted to turn him back instead of killing him?

[tanzanlinnear]

theundercoverjedi said:

I only wonder; if Luke had known what Anakin did to Padme', would he still have wanted to turn him back instead of killing him?

I think had Luke known from the begining exactly what happened to Padme, he probably would have never taken the lightsaber from Obi-Wan, let alone gone with him to become a Jedi. I don't think Anakin ever forgave himself for Padme's death, so I doubt Luke would have been able to either.

[Cara Drume]

Yeah...good point. You could tell that the fact he didn't remember his mother in the first place pained Luke when he was talking to his sis in ROTJ. Telling him what actually happened would have been too much for him.

[tanzanlinnear]

Definitely. I think the real difference between Anakin and Luke was how they were raised. While Anakin had a doting mother, he was resentfull and angry about being a slave. Luke was raised by his aunt and uncle, but without slavery, just the frustration of life passing him by. I suspect his devotion to Anakin's memory was because Owen probably hardly talked about him.

[kivaanzion]

Tanzan I appreciate your honesty. I also realize that this is "just a movie"- and that the pacing at the end was very quick. That being said I am a bit uncomfortable with this comment you made in your post:

However, I would say it was more like a lover's spat than an abusive husband.

I really can't see how you can justify or even attempt to explain his actions at that point. Anakin was hurting (in fact killing) the one person left whom he loved the most- that is an abusive husband/relationship no matter how you slice it.

It doesn't matter that Anakin was "in the zone" having just murdered more defenseless opponents, he had plenty of time to calm himself- in fact he seemed to be in pretty high spirits when Padme first appeared on Mustafar.

Things quickly deteriorated when Padme started saying things that Anakin did not want to hear. His paranoia grows and climaxes with the appearance of Obi-Wan- so what does he do? Instead of rushing toward Obi-Wan to fight him he turns and chokes the life out of his wife?

Like it or not, no matter how bad things get attacking your spouse/girlfriend is abuse. Period. Whether it is done by hitting, choking, throwing something or calling her horrible names- it's abuse.

Anakin may have asked if Padme was alright (and I'm not sure if he directly meant "is she alright from me choking her")- but this is usually the case with abusive relationships. The abusive partner lashes out- then apologizes afterward; truly feeling terrible for their actions. Things are wonderful again until the next time the abusive partner loses their temper and lashes out again- usually with a greater act of violence than the last incident. This is known as the "cycle of abuse/violence".

Forgive me if I sound harsh- I feel it is important that you understand this.

I also totally agree that if Luke knew the whole truth- he would not have idolized Anakin as he did.

[Starkindler (The Naked Jedi)]

Luke hands down since I've read a fair number of the continuation books and read how he developed and the powers he aquired.......

[tanzanlinnear]

kivaanzion said:

Tanzan I appreciate your honesty. I also realize that this is "just a movie"- and that the pacing at the end was very quick. That being said I am a bit uncomfortable with this comment you made in your post:

However, I would say it was more like a lover's spat than an abusive husband.

I really can't see how you can justify or even attempt to explain his actions at that point. Anakin was hurting (in fact killing) the one person left whom he loved the most- that is an abusive husband/relationship no matter how you slice it.

It doesn't matter that Anakin was "in the zone" having just murdered more defenseless opponents, he had plenty of time to calm himself- in fact he seemed to be in pretty high spirits when Padme first appeared on Mustafar.

Things quickly deteriorated when Padme started saying things that Anakin did not want to hear. His paranoia grows and climaxes with the appearance of Obi-Wan- so what does he do? Instead of rushing toward Obi-Wan to fight him he turns and chokes the life out of his wife?

Like it or not, no matter how bad things get attacking your spouse/girlfriend is abuse. Period. Whether it is done by hitting, choking, throwing something or calling her horrible names- it's abuse.

Anakin may have asked if Padme was alright (and I'm not sure if he directly meant "is she alright from me choking her")- but this is usually the case with abusive relationships. The abusive partner lashes out- then apologizes afterward; truly feeling terrible for their actions. Things are wonderful again until the next time the abusive partner loses their temper and lashes out again- usually with a greater act of violence than the last incident. This is known as the "cycle of abuse/violence".

Forgive me if I sound harsh- I feel it is important that you understand this.

I also totally agree that if Luke knew the whole truth- he would not have idolized Anakin as he did.

Not too harsh at all, Master Zion, and I quite understand and agree, violence towards a partner is never acceptable. It is sadly something that once started, seldom stops until the relationship ends.
My comments about Anakin and Padme's relationship is perhaps slightly off-hand, (and I know it's just a movie ;D ) but not meant to try and justify his actions, but to put the relationship itself in the proper context. Their relationship was hardly the typical definition of marriage, even for couples where one partner is in the armed forces and often shipped away. Essentially, you have a young guy married to the woman he has idolized and fantasized about for (at this point) 13 years. However. He has never had a proper relationship with anyone other than his mother, not even a proper relationship with the woman he is married to, so he is emotionally immature and unable to handle the stresses of being married. In a sense, it is almost the classic Internet Romance, where two people will form a relationship, make all sorts of plans, but never spend more than a few hours or days together at a time, so they never really get to know that person properly. For Anakin, to suspect that Padme (who he would have put on a pedestal beyond all proportion) had betrayed him, would be tantamount to his entire universe and reason for living to collapse around him. Everything he did was devoted towards finding a way of protecting her, for him to suddenly think that that 'constant' thing in his life was gone, it's easy to see why he panicked and lashed out at her the way he did, almost an "If I can't have her, no one can" mentality.
As I said before, having had such a violent temper when I was younger, I know how easy it can be for the smallest of things to upset someone like Anakin, and understand it in others, and it's only after thirteen years of training and discipline that I am the person I am now. In a sense, Anakin is simply extremely emotianally stunted, no doubt due to the rigors of the Jedi Order. Qui-Gon could probably have trained him successfully because he would have understood that rebellious nature and nurtured it, but channelled those aggressive tendencies into something constructive. Obi-Wan on the other hand, being more 'by the book', simply tried to stiffle Anakin's impulses, not realizing that he wasn't eliminating them, just suppressing them, and making the need for release even greater. I would still say that Anakin is at heart, a very good person, but his tragic flaw is the violent temper he has always had to suppress, but never learned to control.

[Xzandar Vannlo]

I say it's Anakin all the way. Now had you said Luke or Darth Vader (when he's in the suit) I would have said Luke.

[Bel-Den Shaw]

i believe luke is the better jedi- because of what he does with his powers as opposed to anakin. anakin only wants to focus on the power while luke wants to pass on what he has learned instead of focusing on himself. anakin being a kinght could have taken a padawan at any time but he did not. luke (truce of bakura) found someone who was strong in the force and tried to help him and tried to save him so he may learn the true nature of the force (from my point of view).