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Post by Leda EmBorr on Sept 22, 2004 13:56:19 GMT -5
... is in the new DVD of Return of the Jedi! Yup... so the rumour was true! Sebastian Shaw is gone... and Hayden takes his place. I really didn't think he would do it!
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Post by Vek Eldar on Sept 22, 2004 16:52:13 GMT -5
I could have told you that, Leda! I haven't gotten watch the thing myself, yet, but I hope to be able to watch the films over the course of the weekend. What I am really interested in is Lucas' commentary regarding this particular subject on the alternate voicetrack for 'Jedi.' Oh, and by the way, according to The Force.net, if you look, Sebastian Shaw's eyebrows have been editted out and his eyes have been recolored to match Hayden's. I don't know what the significance of the eyebrow thing is. The only thing that I can come up with is that he lost every bit of hair on his body when he fell into the lava pit.
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Post by amber on Sept 22, 2004 18:29:02 GMT -5
That switch to Hayden's face doesn't make any sense to me. How can Luke recognize his father as a young man if he never saw him at that age?
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JediKai
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TJA Savior
Posts: 5,560
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Post by JediKai on Sept 22, 2004 21:46:06 GMT -5
Well, I find that annoying. Heard it was a possibility.
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Post by Jedimom/Cor-Al Gelkar on Sept 23, 2004 7:14:01 GMT -5
I just feel bad for Sebastian Shaw's family...
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Post by Calaveylon Angavel on Sept 23, 2004 10:01:08 GMT -5
That ain't right!!! In 1983 nobody knew anything about this Hayden kid! Give credit where credit is due!
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Schph Gochi
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"traveling through hyperspace ain't like dustin' crops boy"
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Post by Schph Gochi on Sept 24, 2004 5:39:08 GMT -5
Well......
....and I am going out on a limb with this....
but .... I like the substitution......the only thing I would have done a little different is if they could have "aged" Hayden a little....
for me....it cements the OT and PT together....well...for now anyway...I am sure ROTS will do that further....I want the two trilogies to look as though they are one story...which they are....
yes....all of the changes could be considered flawed...
but the real problem can never be fixed....
the real problem... Hollywood....
as documented in "Empire of Dreams"....Lucas felt he could not get the story told if he started at the beginning....too slow a start for Hollywood....so he chose to start where he did in order to try and get the story told.....and...the reality is that he was probably right....not a lot of people liked PM ....and one of the many complaints was that it was slow....and ....well.....there you go.....Lucas was right....it was an exercise in character development etc...
once the OT came out.....it opened up the entire can of worms.....going back.....it's hard to do....
anyway...those are my thoughts......
I just love the story and the characters soooooooo much...that I am happy with whatever George decides to do.....he was passionate about the story and the vision....and if this is the way he wants us to see it... well....I guess I'm in..... ;D
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Post by Primrodo on Sept 24, 2004 7:43:09 GMT -5
Well the official reason is what Obi-Wan said to him...Anakin died when he became Vader. So seeing Anakin as a young man isn't the point...its teh fact that Luke sees Anakin.
It does have a degree of sense, and I see why some would be upset....
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Post by JediMistressDragon on Sept 24, 2004 11:04:20 GMT -5
How would Luke know his father--he never met him anyway, neither his mother, only Leia as she mentions she knew her as young child. I think this would be the only logical thing they did, as the actor playing ghost of Anakin looks in 40s and Hayden would be in late 20s when he falls into lava pit. Oh, and by the way, according to The Force.net, if you look, Sebastian Shaw's eyebrows have been editted out and his eyes have been recolored to match Hayden's. I don't know what the significance of the eyebrow thing is. The only thing that I can come up with is that he lost every bit of hair on his body when he fell into the lava pit<<< Have you ever had your eyebrows singed by a blast of fire? I did as a child when lighted a gas stove (dumb kid I was) and mine were nearly gone and had to grow back. This wasn't in my mother's house, but a friend's parents who weren't home. So if he falls into a pit of lava. . ..not hard to imagine. Oh, you're talking about the ESB scene--right? the opened Vader helmet? Mmmm. . .thought still looked like Luke to me in that. it wasn't mentioned at digital bits.com about this. Here's link: www.thedigitalbits.com/reviews3/starwarschanges.html for those interested. has pics and all. JMD
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Ad**nitestar
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Post by Ad**nitestar on Sept 24, 2004 13:54:17 GMT -5
Hello all!!
You guys make some valid points overall!
I think when you become one with the force at the time and point in your life at what age you were thats whats shown!
On my way to get the Trilogy this past Tuesday! Several of us fans were waiting outside and the this topic came up as to what Mr. Lucas would do or not do so one guy said he heard that Lucas doesn't care about the fans at all so they say/think is not important as he put it "It's my movie! I can see trying to make all pieces fit but enough is enough! I'm glad I have my OG versions of these great flims!
I 'm glad they finnaly fixed Obi's lightsaber shortage when he fighting Vader in the Death Star . Also some scence's of Of Lukes saber look blueish green on the Falcon when on the way to Alderann!
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Post by Leda EmBorr on Sept 24, 2004 22:35:58 GMT -5
I could have told you that, Leda! Well it was a surprise to me! And I have to agree with Schph... I like it. When the spirits appeared and Hayden's face faded in, it just gave me goosebumps. It brought the saga full circle... added the finishing touch. And as far as "knowing his father", they're all Jedi... Luke doesn't need facial recognition to know it's Anakin. So Obi-Wan was right... when he "...ceased to be Anakin Skywalker, and became Darth Vader, the good man that was your father was destroyed." That's why he looks young as a spirit, because that's when he became one with the Force.
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Post by Leda EmBorr on Sept 24, 2004 22:41:29 GMT -5
... from a certain point of view!
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Schph Gochi
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"traveling through hyperspace ain't like dustin' crops boy"
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Post by Schph Gochi on Sept 25, 2004 1:19:26 GMT -5
...and too true...I was a little ticked off when I read that Lucas doesn't care about the fans... I decided to take the meaning as that Lucas doesn't care about the fans and what they want the film to be....and... After watching "Empire of Dreams".....I can almost understand why.....he risked everything on Star Wars ..and after Hollywood messed with THX1138 and American Graffiti.....he wanted Star Wars to be done the way HE saw it.....so I applaud him for sticking to his guns on having Star Wars as HIS vision.... ditto Leda.....I had goosebumps when Hayden's face appeared at the end of ROTJ....... Sebastian Shaw never cut it for me anyway....and I think that is because you didn't know much about Vader as Anakin until the PT......and I didn't care as much about Vader in the OT..... after "meeting" Anankin as a person through Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones....I care about the character....so the face of the character I care about is more important .....well....to me anyway....
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Post by Leda EmBorr on Sept 25, 2004 23:52:44 GMT -5
I have to believe that GL does care about the fans. Why wouldn't he? But it is his movie. It's his vision, and as an artist, he wants to bring the film to be as close to that vision as possible. Just look at the technology that has sprung out of his quest!
If I made a painting that was all blue, I would have done so because I wanted it that way. It's my painting, my message, I am the artist. I wouldn't add red just because some fans wanted to see red. I would care about their opinions, but to alter my vision just for the sake of pleasing those fans would be selling out to a few folks who probably "missed the point" of my work, and lord knows Hollywood does quite enough of that!
Whether we like or dislike what he's added to the OT is a matter of personal opinion. There are some things that bother me to no end when it comes to the prequels, but the fun comes in analyzing why he did what he did, and quite often I find that by taking that approach, I end up leaning something new.
Does that make sense, or am I just rambling again?
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Post by Nova Darklighter on Sept 26, 2004 23:27:24 GMT -5
I didn't have any real problem with the change in the spirits of the Jedi change, but I would have been very upset if he had put Hayden in the scene where Vader is unmasked and dies, that scene is perfect as it is. I haven't had time yet to watch them all through, but did see a large part of each of them at the Virgin event as we were there for several hours and they were being shown all thru the store. I will say that they look crystal clean and sharper than even they were in their 1st run in theatres. I might be in the minority, but I loved the Special Editions, more fun in some places, and I love the PT as well.
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